Author Topic: Please read before posting a thread in this section.  (Read 3499 times)

Offline DoctorShanks

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Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« on: August 16, 2013, 03:33:12 AM »
Well, I mean, don't read all of it if you don't want to. But hopefully I can manage to leave you with a general understanding of the guidelines I'd like to impose here.

First and foremost, this isn't meant to discourage anyone from posting here, but I feel like this is going to be a very important section of the forums later, even more-so than it is now. With that in mind, I would much prefer to see more detailed and professionally written threads and opinions with MUCH less controversy/arguing. Thus, I have chosen to impose some rules and recommendations, as well as do's and don'ts when posting a thread in this section. I've been putting this off for a while, but I feel like the longer I wait, then the more cleaning up that'll need to be done.

------------------------------
Table of Contents (CTRL+F):
------------------------------

1.0: Basic writing techniques
2.0: Posting Etiquette
3.0: What I'm doing with this place
4.0: How do I write-up?
4.1: Style and Format
4.2: Bold, Underline, and Italics
4.3: Researching
4.3.1: Ask others!
4.3.2: Damage calculator and percentage calculator
4.4: Testing
4.5: Explanations
4.6: Time and Effort
5.0: Counters
6.0: Closing



------------------------------
1.0 Basic writing techniques (off the top of my head)
------------------------------

So, you want to be a writer? I know I do; my writing skill is only based off of what I've learned in High School and the internet. In the meantime, I pretend to be a good writer with write-ups such as this. But enough about me. I try my best to keep the following points in mind when I write things.

- If it takes an hour to write, it's not going to take an hour to read.

Exactly this. If you spend an hour writing something, it's only going to take someone else a few minutes to read. Don't let this discourage you, though. After all, it's not like there's only going to be one person reading this.

- Just because it looks good to you doesn't mean it looks good to everyone else.

Something else to keep in mind, and it's very relevant to this section. There are some threads here that are very hard to read, and very hard to follow as well. This leads to disinterest and disappointment. Spend some time to pretty up your write-up.

If you're not sure, try getting someone else to proofread it alongside you. Whether it be a family member or a friend. Worst case scenario is that the members of the forum make nitpicks at it and ask you to edit small parts of it. You could also try reading it as though you were reading it as someone else with an entirely different mindset, but that's tough to do.

- When you're done, read the whole thing again.

You've just finished throwing together a nice wall of text; one of the worst thing you can do at this point is publish it, as what you have written at this point is essentially a "rough copy." Instead, read it again to make sure that the text flows nicely. If the text doesn't flow nicely, edit some parts of it, and then roll out the "Final Copy." When you're happy with what you've made, and if you think others will be happy with it, then publish it.

Some English teachers recommend that you make a "Good Copy," which is in-between Rough and Final, but for a forum post, this is entirely optional.

- Don't write "facts" without being absolutely sure that you're right

If, for example, you are claiming that the puppet you are writing about can take on a certain threat, some people might ask you for a damage calculation and/or a list of ideal scenarios. If you do your research beforehand, and you know that you're right, then only post your proof if you think it will be beneficial to the write-up.

-Write in a Mature and Professional tone

It's okay to throw around a random gag here and there, but please try to maintain a professional tone while writing sets. A professionally-sounding write-up is much easier to take seriously than one with supposed "jokes" thrown around every other sentence.

- GRAMMAR

If you're going to post a write-up here, or even an ordinary post here, or if you're not very confident with your English-speaking abilities, then run it through a spell-check. If it's not perfect, then either me or Doesnt will take some time to fix it up eventually. If your post is an absolute mess, then I will tag it with a question mark "Message Icon" and I may or may not put a (WIP) tag in the subject (see: 3. What I'm doing with this place). Don't view this as a punishment, though, and don't feel pressured to fix it right away if you're busy. Remember, it is extremely unlikely that we will be deleting anything posted here.

I'll be adding more to this section when things cross my mind, or if people ask me to. I'll try to keep it to suggestions relating only to this forum.



------------------------------
2.0 Posting Etiquette
------------------------------

This is easy. Constructive criticism, approval posts, and suggestions are welcomed. However, shaming, pointing fingers, and immature arguing is certainly not welcomed. If things turn sour, clear your head and try again later.

If a set was poorly written, it will be dealt with via tagging so that way the OP see that something needs fixing (see: 3. What I'm doing to this place). If you see something that you don't agree with regarding a write-up, you may instead question the OP about their decision.



------------------------------
3.0 What I'm doing with this place
------------------------------

At the time of posting, most write-ups posted here are ideal, while there are also a fair amount that are, well, less-than-ideal. If by any chance we end up moving these sets over to the wiki, then we are going to want them to be as well written as possible. Not perfect, but well done at the very least. This is half the reason I've decided to start writing this. It's a small step, but hopefully one in the right direction. The "things" that I will be doing are as follows.

-Threads that seem unfinished or are missing some crucial information will have a (WIP) tag at the end of it.

-Oddly written threads will be tagged with a question mark message icon, usually followed with a questioning sort of post by me shortly after. (New threads only)

-I was thinking of rewarding approved threads with maybe a Thumbs Up message icon, but I can't "approve" anything on my lonesome.

These tags aren't really a full solution, since people can just edit their own threads and remove them. But the point of these tags is to notify the OP that they dun goofed somewhere in their write-up, and personally removing them on their own without any other changes to their thread will earn them a stern talking-to.

Spoiler
Ideally, in bizarro universe, where these sets were going to be imported to the wiki in the future, the Thumbs up'd threads would be ideal for moving to the site. Smogon usually does three(?) approval and grammar checks by the C&C mods before moving sets "on site." I'd prefer not to copy, but it's a dang good system in my opinion.



------------------------------
4.0 How do I write-up?
------------------------------

If you stare at Notepad long enough, words will magically appear. One of two things happen: you either start the first sentence of your Overview then continue to write without thinking, or you realize that you are suffering from writer's block. You need to be inspired before you can write. You're doing it right when an hour feels like 5 minutes.

Sort-of-joking aside, just do your best and please, for the love of god, do not half-ass it. If you don't want to write, don't feel like you have to. If you're not a good writer but still want to write, make sure your readers understand that.



------------------------------
4.1 Style and Format
------------------------------

Sometimes people want to be unique, but in this case, you might get better reviews for copying a format that everyone knows and loves. The Smogon forums style works just fine, as well as most of the styles used here. DoesntKnowHowToPlay's style is a very attractive one to follow in my opinion. My style changes whenever I realize I do something dumb or something visually unattractive with it (I'll go back and change my old threads, I promise), so I don't know if I recommend following mine. The point is, as long as it's visually attractive and easy to navigate, then chances are it's a good format.

Move-set format is something I'd like to keep common throughout all threads if possible. The format used by Shoddy Touhoumon is the one that should be used to avoid confusion or alienation. Here is an example of the Shoddy format:

Mimi-chan (M) @ Lum (All) Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Explosion
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash

By default (as far as I know), the moves are listed in alphabetical order. I'd recommend shuffling the moves in order from most important at the top to least important at the bottom. The (M/F) indicates whether the puppet is Yin or Yang, and can be removed in all cases (Mimi-chan is usually gender-less, but that hasn't been fixed in Shoddy yet). Lastly, if there are other viable moves that need to be listed, you can divide a less-important move with a "/" to imply that the move is interchangeable. Lastly, add a basic name for the set that details its role (you can have fun with this). After implementing of all these changes, it looks something like this:

Revenge Killer
Mimi-chan @ Lum (All) Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Explosion
- Double-Edge/Poison Jab

Flare Blitz is Mimi-chan's most important move because it gets the STAB bonus off of it. Head Smash is an Earth-type move generally used for coverage, and is entirely necessary. Explosion helps Mimi-chan erase serious threats as a last resort. Double-Edge is a Beast-Type move, and as such, it only nets SE damage versus Faith and Ghost types. Poison Jab can be used over Double-Edge if it's team needs something to revenge kill Star Sapphire or Defense Kaguya.

And that's that! Simple, and easy to read, right? Not everyone might agree, but it's a universal format that's generally accepted around here. It's also one that I want to enforce for simplicity's sake.



------------------------------
4.2 Bold, Underline, and Italics
------------------------------

This helps to make certain sections of your write-up to stand out. If you view most threads here (before my mass edit, of course), you'll see that any Overviews, Sets, Other Options, Team Options and Counters sections are Bolded so the reader can skip right down to the information they want to know in an instant. Without this bolding, the reader would otherwise have to skim&scan, or CTRL+F for certain words/sections, which the reader should not have to do.

Underlining and Italicizing are rare. I used to Underline my set names, but it looks rather unattractive in my opinion. Italicizing is cool when you want to make words stand out, but I highly doubt that's a rule in the English rule book. It's cool, either way, but in might not be considered cool in 10 years.



------------------------------
4.3 Researching
------------------------------

For starters, you should never have to write the word "probably" in a situation like this. If you ever catch yourself writing the "P word," go find out the answer to your question. For example, saying a puppet is "Probably" going to OHKO this puppet with a certain move, unless "probably" means you already know for sure that there's a 70% chance of an OHKO, then you should probably go run it through a damage calculator just to be sure, so you can remove the "P word" and state these simple facts that you now know the answer to.

Not all research needs to be posted. If you know a puppet is going to OHKO a puppet with a certain move, and you've ran it through a calculator, then the odds are that you don't need to post it, and people will take your word for it. If said move can only OHKO said puppet after a layer of Spikes, then you should DEFINITELY mention that.

I'm sorry but I can't think of other examples. I guess another example would be mentioning Ellen has a SpAtk stat of 90 because that's what you know off the top of your head, when in reality, Ellen actually has a SpAtk stat of 100. If you're not 100% sure of something, go and make yourself 100% sure.



------------------------------
4.3.1 Ask Others!
------------------------------

Sometimes, asking others about their experiences with your puppet can open yourself up to entirely different play-styles with the puppet that you're writing about. Once in a while, I'll drop a line in Shoddy saying "Hey, does anyone have any notable experiences using (puppet)? How would you guys rate her?"



------------------------------
4.3.2 Damage Calculator and Percentage calculator
------------------------------

Damage Calculator specifically tailored for Touhoumon.

For reference, these are the calculators I use when I'm trying to figure out how much damage an attack will do, and what % of the puppet's health will be drained. I like to round down for Minimum damage, and round up for Maximum damage when calculating percentages.



------------------------------
4.4 Testing
------------------------------

Obviously, testing your set is crucial before you post it. Basic testing is usually not enough, and in most cases, more serious testing, as well as more serious research is required. Using a puppet once is not enough testing. Using a puppet three times is not enough testing. What is enough testing, is using the puppet enough times, with enough successes and failures to be able to give a valid opinion on it.

Sometimes, people will join the server and use one of their favorite Touhous in their main team for a long time. Should they decide to write about it, they may or may not have extensive knowledge about not just the puppet, but how the entirety of the game is played. With that in mind, basic knowledge on competitive Pokémon itself is a requirement on its own. You don't have to be a professional, you just have to know the absolute basics, be aware of what is considered a good play and a bad play, and be aware that your opponent is an actual person rather than an in-game trainer.



------------------------------
4.5 Explanations
------------------------------

You can't just write a set and say "she's really good she helped my team a lot you should try her" and leave it at that; the average critical thinker will question the hell out of your statement.

Overviews are optional, but they're really cool for explaining a puppet's strengths, weaknesses, and roles before you move down to the sets and everything else. In my eyes, it's a reassurance that the OP knows what they're talking about.

Explain everything else in full and clear detail while you're at it. Sets like to know why they have their moves, their item, their EV spread, and their Ability. Explain other cool looking moves in another section, usually titled Other Options. And lastly, Counters, in some cases, requires reasons as to why certain puppets are considered counters for your puppet (See: 5.0 Counters). Obvious counters can be listed at the beginning or end (things like, "Steel-types scare off the Dark-type" and such), and more in-depth counters and checks usually require a little more explanation.



------------------------------
4.6 Time and Effort
------------------------------

For reference, at this point, I am eight hours into this write-up, and I am only half-way done. What I want to say here, is that if you put the time and effort into your writing, there's a much greater chance that you and your readers will be happy with the outcome. Youki, Attack Utsuho, Chen, Attack Kazami, Defense Hina, Chiyuri, Momiji, Rikako, Kyouko, Advent Reisen, Reisen, Yumemi, and even Tori and Ruukoto were each all day jobs for me. I am very happy with the outcomes with all of them, and they have all received positive feedback.



------------------------------
5.0 Counters
------------------------------

When people look at threads posted here, some of them are interested in how to use the puppet, while others are interested in how to counter the puppet. Ideally, you should be appealing to both audiences, or they might leave disappointed with what you've written, or in this case, what hasn't been written.

A neutral mindset is wonderful. Sure, you can use personal pronouns here and there, but try to cover the good, the bad, and the ugly while you're writing about a Puppet; the ugly, in this case, would be the counters (at least, from the writer's perspective). Counters can be obvious, they can be kept simple, or you can go in deep detail as to why an unlikely puppet is actually a complete stop to your puppet. Chances are, you've tested your puppet enough to know what scares it off. Keep in mind that when writing your Counters, that you should write it from the opponent's point of view, and write things that they want to hear. For example, if you were writing about Gentetsu, the readers might like to hear "Gengetsu stands absolutely no chance against Speed Youmu (reasoning follows)."

What most people like to see is specific puppets, rather than types, being listed as counters. A certain puppet being listed as a counter sounds much safer and more attractive than an entire type being listed as a counter.

*Edit @ August 16th, 2013: Do your Counters section LAST, and list them in detail at the END of your write-up. That way, when people only want to view the Counters to your puppet, they can scroll to the bottom of the page and find their counters without trouble.



------------------------------
6.0 Closing
------------------------------

I understand that this may be seen as long overdue to some, as this forum has been self-moderated by the posters for quite some time, up until it became more active here. Again, this post isn't meant to discourage anyone from writing for Move-sets; if you make a few mistakes, they'll usually be edited and shrugged off. If you bomb it, I'll try to help out with un-bombing it. I have no intentions of deleting any threads here.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:01:48 AM by DoctorShanks »

Offline DoctorShanks

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2013, 05:06:20 PM »
Added a new suggestion/rule regarding Counters.

Offline Naï

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 06:48:51 PM »
And then, I read the write-up in about 15~20 minutes, while you take 16 hours to write it. :<

Either way, this is really nice, honestly. The effort and thinking gone into this are rather obvious, and it's nice and easy to read, too. The writing is detailed, but not so detailed that the text'd be tens of thousands of words long. All examples are easy to understand, too.



I have one problem, though: Hyper Beam Gengetsu can beat SYoumu, tested and confirmed

Offline shai_LP

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 07:15:41 PM »
There should be a compromise between detailed and "professionally done" and Length/Humor

doesnt/agastya threads aren't the most professional but they're an extremely entertaining read while still being informative

as I said in the last thread maybe we could we reach a compromise using

'These Things'
Like in Smogon's additional Comments

Offline joshcja

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 08:10:51 PM »
Attack patchy updated

S komachi updated (I'm not listing every bulky water in the damn game but I did reformat and simplify the whole thing, the support section was pretty fun to write too)

A Sanae updated. The main issue here seems to be that i did not clearly define why she has such a fantastic niche as an antilead.

A Reimu cleaned up

Minor changes to A Remilia to make it more visually appealing

T Byakuren should be up to snuff, though I wound up splitting her support section up to improve the overall flow of the post somewhat though it still feels a touch clunky.

Bolded things in sara and added support. fixed minor spelling crap.

Prettied up H erin

Aaand rin's done. Just bumped the alternate sets into options. Included now fixed barrier and high str abuser in counters list specifically Fixed minor spelling errors, prettied it up a bit.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 03:04:08 AM by joshcja »

Offline Naï

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 11:21:57 PM »
Ugh the forums logging me in and out are being a troll and making me rewrite this post



Either way, you should probably give direct examples when mentioning Doesnt and Smogon as models. In mentioning Doesnt, for example, linking to a Doesnt set might be your best set bet.
yes i know im a genius at rhyming

Also, there's this mini-essay I just wrote. I don't know if any of the first part could apply as spacing/whatever guidelines, but the second part is aimed specifically at you and this thread.

Offline DoctorShanks

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 12:04:29 AM »
Ugh the forums logging me in and out are being a troll and making me rewrite this post

When logging in, where is says "Welcome, Guest! Please Login or Register," click on login. There, you can select a check box that says "always stay logged in."

Anyway, I'll link to a Doesnt thread in there somewhere, and I'll add a note about proper paragraph structure. I'll go read what you've posted.

Offline Naï

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 08:36:04 AM »
I was aware of the function; it's just that I was reluctant to use it because of security and all, but since my current browser settings wouldn't keep me logged in after I close the browser anyway, it's probably okay to use it. Saves me trouble.

Either way, since I spam that good n' old preview function, all I had to do without the "keep logged in" thing was ask the browser to resend the info, so everything would be safe for the most part - unless I didn't try using preview, but that's limited to shorter posts, which are not too much trouble to rewrite.

Offline EXSariel

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 07:16:08 AM »
What sort of push would I have to make in order to get links to the puppet's wiki page to be mandatory or at least standard in each analysis?
I'm not here.

Offline Rhetco

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 07:33:27 AM »
What sort of push would I have to make in order to get links to the puppet's wiki page to be mandatory or at least standard in each analysis?

That isn't half bad of an idea. I'll go do that for the sets I've written.
Also I guess we could go pester Doesnt and Shanks to do that for the sets written by people who vanished form shoddy.
One day I'll be famous for all the amazing things I've achieved. But until then, I'm going to continue doing absolutely nothing.

Offline shai_LP

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 07:11:10 PM »
threw links



Code: [Select]
[url=http://thpp.supersanctuary.net/wiki/Zombie_Fairy]   
 [img]http://lkaexe.supersanctuary.net/thmon18spritedump/frontnormal/fzombiefairy.png[/img][/url]

edit: damnit josh still being lay-zee and just dropping URL line zzz
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:30:23 PM by shai_LP »

Offline shai_LP

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Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 09:27:37 PM »
Here are some Stat Tables

because it looks nicer

Kuri Style [easier to slap on anything]

preview
Type: Type / Type

                                 Base              Min-MinMaxMax+
HP: 80 -301364-
Attack: 110 230256319350
Defense: 80 176196259284
Special Attack: 80 176196259284
Special Defense: 80 176196259284
Speed: 100 212236299328


code
Code: [Select]
[left][sub]Type: [b]Type / Type[/b][/sub][/left]

[table]

[tr]

[td]                                 [/td]

[td][b]Base[/b][/td]

[td]              [/td]

[td][b]Min-[/b][/td]

[td][b]Min[/b][/td]

[td][b]Max[/b][/td]

[td][b]Max+[/b][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]HP[/b]: [/td]

[td]80[/td]

[td] [/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]301[/td]

[td]364[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]Attack[/b]: [/td]

[td]110[/td]

[td] [/td]

[td]230[/td]

[td]256[/td]

[td]319[/td]

[td]350[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]Defense[/b]: [/td]

[td]80[/td]

[td] [/td]

[td]176[/td]

[td]196[/td]

[td]259[/td]

[td]284[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]Special Attack[/b]: [/td]

[td]80[/td]

[td] [/td]

[td]176[/td]

[td]196[/td]

[td]259[/td]

[td]284[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]Special Defense[/b]: [/td]

[td]80[/td]

[td] [/td] 

[td]176[/td]

[td]196[/td]

[td]259[/td]

[td]284[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][b]Speed[/b]: [/td]

[td]100[/td]

[td] [/td]

[td]212[/td]

[td]236[/td]

[td]299[/td]

[td]328[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Coylise Style **will do later

Spoiler



Spoiler
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 09:30:35 PM by shai_LP »