Author Topic: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)  (Read 3567 times)

Offline KuroShinki

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Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« on: April 23, 2015, 04:39:07 PM »
First of all, hi everyone. I'm new here. I'm not a native english speaker, and I appreciate any grammar corrections and such.

So, I have some questions about Touhou Puppet Play, and I hope can I get some answers.

Question related to Touhou:

1- I don't consider myself a great gamer, even if I spend half my time on videogames (other is for anime/manga...sadly I have a very small job), and I freakin love this game franchise. But why there's isn't any room for beginners? (I'm talking about the main series) I know that the genre is Bullet Hell, or Danmaku, but I think that they should add a difficulty for people that are not good and want to play the game or are learning. Is the same problem I have with Dark Souls: I would like to play the game, but it's just so damn hard and sadistic.

2- Related to the first question: Why 90% of the fanmade games follow the rule: It's Touhou, it has to be hard? I know some exceptions to this offcourse: Touhou Pocket Wars, Touhoumon (not all of it) and Touhou Sky Arena.

Now, my questions about Puppet Play:

1- Are there roms similar to Touhoumon Puppet Emerald aka Purple? With similar I mean hacks that are good and polished, and not a general grindfest "because is Touhou duh". For the record, I tried only this and Achiya hacks.

2- Related to Agastya Emerald: Is it me or it is kinda frustrating sometimes? I'm replaying the game without turbo function and on my PSP, and had to grind to lv 20 for the museum event. But I gave myself 6 lucky eggs because grinding on Nature Puppets it's hell when they ALL know Stun Spore.

3- Not exactly a question but: I think that but I think Achiya should really gets help if he wants to continue creating hacks: grindfests, difficulty spikes, BS (ZReimu........And don't bring arguments like "Mirror Coat" XD)

I guess that's it. Puppet Play is awesome, and I really like playing it.

And my favourite characters are Shinki, Yukari, Flandre, Keine and Parsee.

Sorry if I'm being harsh or annoying, but I wanted to share my opinions ^_^
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 04:53:16 PM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
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Offline Neotornado

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 09:02:01 PM »
As someone who frequents here, I just have to say welcome!

As for the general questions, these aren't exactly my forte since I don't play the main games much (only have access to the 5 PC98 games), but a general rule is practice makes perfect, as generic as that sounds. You'll find yourself getting a little farther each time. (also, don't be afraid to play on easy. it's there for a reason!) If you want specific tips, learn to identify "streaming" spells, which is to say spells that are aimed AT you and can be dodged by a simple movement, and "static" spells, which take a pattern to them. Many spells combine both of them, though, so practice helps to identify them. Can't really weigh in on the fangames since I haven't played many outside of touhou puppet play.

As for the hacks, most of the ones on here are geared on balance, such as Faith & Prayer as well as Touhoumon Blue. (both can be found in the fan-made projects sub-forum) As for the Achiya hacks, that's kind of a given with his stuff, really. Something to note since you are new is that there are two "versions" of touhoumon so to speak. 1.5, and 1.8. the difference mainly comes down to how puppets evolve and the type chart. going to get a bit in-depth on this one so I'm going to put this one in a tag.
Spoiler
1.5 generally stays closer to how vanilla pokemon works, and the type chart is almost identical, although most hacks give dark a weakness to steel. Evolution is chibi to normal to EX (to a few alternate forms, depending on the hack) Last words may or may not be included as a fourth stage on top of this, or they may be included as a branch from EX forms. Most of these hacks are older, and don't feature the physical/special split. (although the version of blue on here has it) Touhoumon blue, Touhoumon ordinary version, and touhoumon merry's version are examples of 1.5 hacks.
1.8, on the other hand, radically alters the type chart on top of adding 3 new types (heart, faith, and beast) as well as changing how a lot of the other typings interact. (for instance, water is now weak to poison/miasma) Evolution has also been modified to remove the EX forms (with normal forms having around the same power level as 1.5 EX forms) as well as adding alternate forms to most puppets, obtained via shards. There are six shards, each one specializing in a specific theme. (Attack, Defense, Speed, Helper, Tech, and Advent) Examples of 1.8 hacks include Touhoumon purple, as well as the previously mentioned faith & prayer and Touhoumon UnNamed (although I wouldn't advise this one, the difficulty's pretty high...)
There are a few hacks that blend both styles, such as Touhoumon AE as well as Touhoumon tweaked (my own hack, which is about ready to be updated, and is pretty buggy as a result)
Hopefully that should help out a bit if you were confused about that. Finally, to answer the other question, it does get pretty tedious, but a good rule of thumb is that the most recent route opened may not be the best for grinding. I generally find granite cave better for grinding at that point because the puppets there are easy to defeat, as opposed to route 110 having CDaiyousei and CMystia, both of which are pains to deal with.
Sorry if I rambled on a bit, but that should answer most of the touhoumon-related questions. If you have any others, feel free to ask!

Whelp, it finally happened. TouhoumonUnNamed HAS BEEN COMPLOCKED.

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 07:19:15 AM »
Thanks for the answers.

First, I'm not inclined to learn how to play Touhou, since I'm not THAT interested in Shoot 'em up (and I already sold my soul to fighting games). I know that pratice makes perfect, but after practicing Akai Katana for two months and never finished the game on easy, I just decided to give up on bullet hell. Is the same as Monster Hunter, Dark Souls, God Eater burst etc: too hard for my tastes. I should mention that I love playing musou games so...yeah. But I play Ninja Gaiden too, so at least I try to balance things.

About Touhoumon, I already knew the differences between 1.5 and 1.8, and the downsides (1.5 is really bad XD). Thanks for the tip about grinding, it will help in future playthrough. And now the game will become much easier, since I'm close to evolutions, and a more extended range of puppets to choose. And is it just me or "super-effective" attacks are more powerful here than in pokèmon games? I swear, my CMurasa wrecked another CMurasa easy with a super-effective.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 07:25:16 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
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Offline Agastya

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 06:07:58 PM »
If you're looking for other games to try out with a somewhat similar degree of difficulty, I recommend trying out Unnamed by Doesnt. It's a little more difficult than Purple is at points though, but I was able to clear it somewhat underleveled so it's not that much harder.

As for Purple's own difficulty curve, I feel the worst segment (not counting The Collector) is the Flannery~Winona stretch. Mt Ember wilds are really your best bet for leveling around then, and it gets really tedious really fast until you have reliable evolved things to level off of. Earlygame is made easier if you adopt a revolving door party system, but it just makes the later catchup a little worse.

It's a little too late in the life cycle to do much more about that, though.
[6:30:51] DoctorShanks: Is Star Sapphire actually good or do people just use her because she's cute? Or both?
[6:30:55] Irisorchid: both
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Offline Drewko

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 06:51:18 PM »
If you want some good 1.5 experience (i still prefer it), you can try one of these hacks:
- Touhoumon Aqua+Yui
- Touhoumon Blue
- Touhoumon Ordinary Version (based on gen II, but author just dissapears before last update. It ends just before final battle with Red ZUN.)

All other are crappy and unfunny shits based on fake difficulty and bullshit. Too bad there is no GOOD 1.5 game based on Emerald :(

Offline Neotornado

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 08:17:37 PM »
If you want some good 1.5 experience (i still prefer it), you can try one of these hacks:
- Touhoumon Aqua+Yui
- Touhoumon Blue
- Touhoumon Ordinary Version (based on gen II, but author just dissapears before last update. It ends just before final battle with Red ZUN.)

All other are crappy and unfunny shits based on fake difficulty and bullshit. Too bad there is no GOOD 1.5 game based on Emerald :(
There is emerald AE but it's pretty unpolished. And it kind of uses 1.8's typing system.

Whelp, it finally happened. TouhoumonUnNamed HAS BEEN COMPLOCKED.

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 09:10:50 PM »
Again, thanks you all for your answers.

I already beat this game an year ago, but I didn't remember the beginning was this hard. Now I beat Wattson easily thanks to my beast Medicine, and I'm around 30 with everyone. And now the game is becoming much easier and tolerable, even with the Pokèmon sheaningans (confusion last 5 turns only on me, evasion move, sand-attack and its friends, sometimes fast puppets are not that fast etc).

About Unnamed, I'll add that to my "To play" list, even if it has Touhou music. It's not bad, in fact I love touhou music. But I think in these games is too loud (and those vocal tracks on Another World and World Link...ugh.)

About 1.5...
- Touhoumon Ordinary Version (based on gen II, but author just dissapears before last update. It ends just before final battle with Red ZUN.)
Gen II is my favorite of all Pokèmon games. I would like to try one of those, if there aren't Zs around. But I feel it's kinda outdated now...who knows, one day. I'm already busy playing Purple and watching Agame ga Kill these days, and my work is picking up finally.

I'll share my actual team:

CShou LV 28
CAya LV 29
CMurasa LV 29
DMomiji LV 30
CAlice LV 30
AMedicine LV 31

Yes, I did cheated by getting shards early. No, I don't feel bad about it. And yes, I didn't build a team strategically, and I didn't care about EV and nature. But I caught all of them legit.

PS: Congrats Agastya, your "Let's play" of WL and AW made me laugh so much XD
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 09:13:59 PM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline Drewko

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2015, 06:54:29 AM »
There is no Z Bonekas, nor any other useless alt.evolutions in Ordinary, mostly because author is not an idiot, and because there was no space for that (251 minus Unown and currently unplayable Rinnosuke that was planned to be gift for beating ZUN i think.)
It is 99% completed and is pretty polished, the only minor bug is in Misty's team, where she have CShizuha instead of... something.

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2015, 10:06:05 AM »
There is no Z Bonekas, nor any other useless alt.evolutions in Ordinary, mostly because author is not an idiot, and because there was no space for that (251 minus Unown and currently unplayable Rinnosuke that was planned to be gift for beating ZUN i think.)
It is 99% completed and is pretty polished, the only minor bug is in Misty's team, where she have CShizuha instead of... something.

Which, AFAIK, can be easily fixed...right? Not a gamebreaking thing tough. Thanks, I'll definitely add ordinary on my "to play" list.

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline Drewko

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 02:21:15 PM »
Well, we don't know what Geminirage wanted to put in place of that Shizuha (obviously some Water type :V).

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 06:18:05 PM »
I've encountered a problem with Touhoumon Purple, not sure if a bug or what.

In the wiki, it says that CAlice and CAya can evolve in Dark Alice and Tenma with shards, but none of the shards seems to work.

I'm pretty sure I read in the files that the trade evolutions were fixed...

EDIT: Found the problem. The Readme says that it uses Chrome shard instead of the ones listened in the wiki.

EDIT2: And now another question, related to Purple or maybe in general: Since Vicoty Road drain my patience, I didn't want to beat the elite 4 by pure luck or throwing my PSP across the room/road. So I went in a all-out training until I reached lv 100 with my team. Now the question: How in the world a lv 100 is slower than a lv 70? I mean there is balancing, but...it's kinda bad when the enemy is faster and can nearly one-shot you, even with attacks that aren't super effective. And is 30 levels below you.

And if anyone know, in Purple, what are the stats of the elite 4?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 09:06:09 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline DerxwnaKapsyla

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 07:40:03 AM »
I've encountered a problem with Touhoumon Purple, not sure if a bug or what.

EDIT2: And now another question, related to Purple or maybe in general: Since Vicoty Road drain my patience, I didn't want to beat the elite 4 by pure luck or throwing my PSP across the room/road. So I went in a all-out training until I reached lv 100 with my team. Now the question: How in the world a lv 100 is slower than a lv 70? I mean there is balancing, but...it's kinda bad when the enemy is faster and can nearly one-shot you, even with attacks that aren't super effective. And is 30 levels below you.

And if anyone know, in Purple, what are the stats of the elite 4?

Depending on the Puppets, a Level 70 can easily outspeed a Level 100. For example, a Level 70 Mimi-Chan (Base 140) is more than likely going to outspeed a Defense Patchouli (Base 5) because of the sheer speed difference. I might be speaking out my ass here. It's also very likely that the trainer has a speed-boosting hold item. It's not really bad balancing at all.

Out of curiosity, what puppets were in the battle at that time? That should shed some light.
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Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 07:51:42 AM »
I've encountered a problem with Touhoumon Purple, not sure if a bug or what.

EDIT2: And now another question, related to Purple or maybe in general: Since Vicoty Road drain my patience, I didn't want to beat the elite 4 by pure luck or throwing my PSP across the room/road. So I went in a all-out training until I reached lv 100 with my team. Now the question: How in the world a lv 100 is slower than a lv 70? I mean there is balancing, but...it's kinda bad when the enemy is faster and can nearly one-shot you, even with attacks that aren't super effective. And is 30 levels below you.

And if anyone know, in Purple, what are the stats of the elite 4?

Depending on the Puppets, a Level 70 can easily outspeed a Level 100. For example, a Level 70 Mimi-Chan (Base 140) is more than likely going to outspeed a Defense Patchouli (Base 5) because of the sheer speed difference. I might be speaking out my ass here. It's also very likely that the trainer has a speed-boosting hold item. It's not really bad balancing at all.

Out of curiosity, what puppets were in the battle at that time? That should shed some light.

I admit that I wrote that after my long and painful experience, so I maybe exaggerated a little. I clearly remember that Dark Alice was the only one that has no troubles in speed.

My others were: AMedicine (217 SPD), AMokou (156, so it's ok to be slower...even tough she was faster most of the time lol), Shou (174), AMurasa (192) and Tenma (218).

What I remember clearly it was someone using Luster Purge and oneshotting me without super-effective or critical, but I don't remember who. I remember the trainer, and it was either Drake or the Champion (I'm not very fond of Gen 3 Pokèmon onwards, so I don't remember all the names).

Speaking of Drake, Garchomp is broken, it was a beast to defeat. And I think Dragonite gave me trouble with her Earthquake. Sendai too, with Earthquake. I think I hate that move now.

Now I'm completing the Dex legit (except for fossil and Lati@s event), and focus on building a team seriously for the first time, paying attention to EV and Nature. I want to tackle the elite 4 again and pulverize them. And beat Battle Frontier if possible, that would be my first time even trying to do that.

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline Neotornado

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 02:45:52 PM »
If it was luster purge, that was either the Yumemi on Glacia's team (207 speed), or the AdReisen on Wallace's team (214 speed)
Other speedsters in the E4 include...
Sidney's SFlandre (205)
Sidney's ALily Black (187)
Drake's garchomp (188)
And Wallace's SMarisa (211 speed)

Whelp, it finally happened. TouhoumonUnNamed HAS BEEN COMPLOCKED.

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions (not specifically related to Puppet Play)
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 03:50:13 PM »
If it was luster purge, that was either the Yumemi on Glacia's team (207 speed), or the AdReisen on Wallace's team (214 speed)
Other speedsters in the E4 include...
Sidney's SFlandre (205)
Sidney's ALily Black (187)
Drake's garchomp (188)
And Wallace's SMarisa (211 speed)

Definitely AdReisen then. As I said, Garchomp was a pain, but it never used Luster Purge. In fact, in the end I Luster Purged him with Dark Alice.

Speaking of Advent, I know that they are based form a manga that I think parodies Final Fantasy VII. So, who are the characters exactly? Even with my love and knowledge of Final Fantasy VII, I can't recognize them all.

I guess is something like this:

Cirno - Cloud
Reisen - Vincent
Meiling - Tifa
Letty - Sephiroth
Yukari - Rufus
Ran and Chen - Probably Rufus and Rude
Alice - Aerith
Mokou - no idea
Mystia - no idea
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:22:18 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki