Poll

Should Speed Aya be re-banned?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"  (Read 1908 times)

Offline Doesnt

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Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« on: August 24, 2014, 04:53:23 AM »
So Agastya unbanned Speed Aya so we could test her, in theory. It's been a while with her unbanned and Josh wanted a poll to see what we think of her, so here it is. I guess discussion could go here too but I'll leave it to Josh I think.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 04:55:16 AM by Doesnt »
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya

Offline joshcja

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Re: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 04:58:54 AM »
She's blaziken with B pass and base 140 speed and zapdos typing and flyign/dream and prio and hazards and recovery and hazard support.

She needs 8 atk with airline to ohko Ad reisen on the RK freely passing +1 speed to any counter.

She can live a fucking mistress Sflan thrash with ease thanks to her silly bulk gained from Hp investment. And has Roost.

She has only 12% less damage otuput than a similarly banded Taya with MUCH higher speed.

So frankly she's the best lead spiker B passer, Rker, wallbreaker (with a band) and offensive spinner in the game. Period.

SLIGHTLY BROKEN.

(Doesnt and others should probably leave comments os its not just me ranting at Saya to get off my lawn)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 01:15:25 PM by joshcja »

Offline DoctorShanks

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Re: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 12:32:21 PM »
I voted yes, but I did so relatively impulsively, and kind of wish I could change my vote. I really want to wait until I hear arguments from both sides before giving my opinion, especially since I never really used Speed Aya, even before she was banned..

She can do a lot, but she's incredibly frail, so she needs to be played right. Hardcore 4MSS. Yumeko and Sakuya threatening Sculptures. Intimidate can intercept Baton Pass albeit with top-level prediction.

I'll add more to this post once my brain is working properly.
[8:30:13] DoctorSnacks: Are A/TSanae actually good or do people just use them because they're cute? Or Both?
[8:30:23] SupremeExplosion: Shoddy is a reskinned weenie hut juniors

Offline joshcja

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Re: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 01:13:09 PM »
@Shanks: A shoddy member asked that same question last night, I gave this whole speel to him and he still didn't believe, so I slapped Saya's bulky baton pass set on the lead of an old team (its not really made to be a lead set at all but w/e) After a few 6-0's he started hard counterleading Saya, this worked for about 1 game, then I started shuffling between taunt/HJK/Tect and we got back on the pain train.

Revelant calcs:

Bulky Baton Pass
SAya @ Airline Uniform
Ev's: 8atk/248 hp/252 spd
Jolly Nature (+atk, - spatk)
-Tailwind
-Baton Pass
-Brave Bird
-High Jump Kick/Taunt/Roost

8 Atk Airline Uniform SAya Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def AdReisen: 282-333 (100.35 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 Atk Airline Uniform SAya Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def SFlandre: 219-258 (90.87 - 107.05%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Airline Uniform SAya Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yumemi: 219-258 (70.41 - 82.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Airline Uniform SAya Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def SMedicine: 326-386 (103.82 - 122.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 Atk Airline Uniform SAya Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def AdMokou: 207-244 (68.77 - 81.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Above calcs are to show that Saya is perfectly functional as an Rker with only 8 atk

252+ Atk Special Bloomers Yumeko Blade Flash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def SAya: 308-366 (89.79 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Maid Uniform Yumeko Blade Flash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def SAya: 248-294 (72.3 - 85.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Yumeko Blade Flash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def SAya: 206-246 (60.05 - 71.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk ATenshi Draw The Line vs. 248 HP / 0 Def SAya: 264-312 (76.96 - 90.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 SpA HEirin Aqua Shower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD SAya: 249-294 (72.59 - 85.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mistress Outfit SFlandre Thrash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def SAya: 271-321 (79 - 93.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

First few calcs show that unless your packing a band yumeko Saya can in fact eat the blade flash once

The rest of the calcs are to show that Saya in entirely capable of eating one of just about any non STAB SE hit and then simply passing out +1/+2.

So just one set requires you to pack a dream neutral banded blade flash on every, single, team.
The set has 3 variants, there are at least 5 Main Saya sets. NICE COUNTERS NERD.

For example...

168+ SpA Priest Garb SAya Silver Wind vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Yumeko: 310-366 (85.87 - 101.38%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Saya can run about 88 atk when not packing an airline to smack ad reisen up without sacrificing speed, while and this is important, FUCKING OHKOING HER BEST COUNTER and while this relegates her to detecting rather than Tw passing who gives a shit.

252+ Atk Special Bloomers SAya Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def HEirin: 214-253 (50.83 - 60.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes
NICE WALLS NERD

Notes: Remember that steel types in a choice lock are a HUGE liability with shit like APatchy waiting in the wings to catch a +2 speed or just swap in on blade flash and obliterate something. Ditto for ye olde intimidate.
Before someone mentions phasing, Adamant Sara, any of the Meiling forms, and other oddball mons such as Elly or soundproof mons such as ohgoditsfastbenben can suppress phasing even if Saya isn't throwing around taunts.
The prediction game vs yuemko is slanted heavily towards Saya.
If Saya ever passes +1/+2 its probably GG, right then, right there.
Even if you kill the +1/+2 abomination Saya has created she's going to come right back in, kill of your Rker, and pass +1 speed at worst, or simply set up on your wall and pass +1/+2 again at best.

At her absolute worst SAya is Mimi chan ++, at her best you get 6-0ed, her best is common, Unlike Tenma she can change her set to defeat ANY of her counters while packing the exact same RK utility and Speedpass utility thanks to her absurd speed stat and atk stat providing a silly amount of "free Ev's". Or hey, if you don't want to be a cheap fucker you can just run a lead spiker that eats about 99% of leads for breakfast or a betterthantaya band user.

TL: DR Saya has no counters, zip 0 zilch, her only case of 4mss comes from people trying to "mix" sets, She has to change a whopping ONE moveslot on any given set to fuck up any one of her 5 or sochecks. So not only does Saya herself have no counters, each individual SET of Saya has no counters.

TL;DR;DR SLIGHTLY BROKEN

TL;DR;DR;DR PURSUIT WAIFU NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:49:23 PM by joshcja »

Offline PrinnyAce

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Re: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 12:17:49 AM »
here is a comment you like?

SAYA IS MY WAIFU NO WAY YOU CAN BAN HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Josh is a fucking idoit.

I vote yes ban because in all seriousness why the fuck does she get BP and tailwind.

Offline Doesnt

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Re: Speed Aya "Suspect" "Voting"
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 01:38:37 AM »
===============
Begin turn #2
Fast Yo used Tailwind!
Fast Yo's attack was raised!
Fast Yo's speed was raised!
Magic Stones used Mana Burst!
A critical hit!
Fast Yo lost 100% of its health!
Fast Yo fainted!


josh i think you're just bad, speed aya is clearly balanced
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya