Author Topic: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread  (Read 13006 times)

Zak-something

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2014, 10:45:16 PM »
IIRC its because Lyrica has great speed and Spikes and Momento (which cripples your opponent's offenses and allows a free switch, allowing you to use set up moves easier, as your opponent will either switch out or have to make due with halved attack).

Offline chaosakita

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2014, 11:24:27 PM »
Minor error I noticed: Kaguya and Defense Yukari have their names misspelled

EDIT: Bonus question, can anyone explain what makes Rin so much better than Attack or Speed Rin? Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to get an understanding of the metagame.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 05:06:10 AM by chaosakita »

Offline joshcja

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 10:29:01 AM »
Minor error I noticed: Kaguya and Defense Yukari have their names misspelled

EDIT: Bonus question, can anyone explain what makes Rin so much better than Attack or Speed Rin? Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to get an understanding of the metagame.

Bulk, Typing, movepool

Rin is the hardest stop to physical mon's not packing waterfall or a boosted brave bird. For example she can eat up even airline T Aya brave Bird from full.

Fire gives cat the ability to hard wall steels, grants her acess to wil-o-wisp and flare blitz is a solid stab

Beast makes cat into Giritina-O in sand, and allows her to ohko Tbyakuren with heat claw while granting a valued ghost resist.

Rin also has a ton of movepool options ranging from phasing (Roar, perish song), priority (espeed) a boosting move (Sub Curse) trapping (Fire spin) and has a solid speed tier at 95 with a more than ueseable spdef stat  and semi reliable healign in wishtect.

Her drawbacks are somewhat negligible compared to her strengths, weakess to (4x) water and (2x) flying with a vulnerability to toxic.

Offline chaosakita

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2014, 11:09:38 PM »
Why is Murasa ranked higher than AMurasa? More bulk?

Offline joshcja

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2014, 01:17:34 AM »
AMurasa has more physical bulk actually. In addition she can run offensive or defensive sets.

However normal murasa has several advantages, namely that her typing is MUCH better suited to a special defensive role,  aqua jet is solid priority, and while shadow punch is pure sadness waterfall and ice punch are wonderful vs sub cmers.

Basically Murasa is "worse" in a vacuum than AMurasa however Murasa suits the metagame better.

Offline andaltmorf

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2014, 03:17:41 AM »
I know she has Sand Stream and decent S.Def, but is there more to make Suika S-rank? I don't think she has a reliable source of recovery, so walling would be a limited-time type thing for her. I'll admit her resistances are better than her other evolutions due to not being part Fire, but she is fairly slow and her defense is hardly perfect...

Could someone please explain in full? Or is it just, well, "Perma-sand and she can take some hits"?
Momiji is a Tengu guard.
Aya is a Tengu civilian.
Guards protect civilians because they're stronger than the civilians, right?

Offline Doesnt

  • much sand. wow.
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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2014, 08:29:10 PM »
I know she has Sand Stream and decent S.Def, but is there more to make Suika S-rank? I don't think she has a reliable source of recovery, so walling would be a limited-time type thing for her. I'll admit her resistances are better than her other evolutions due to not being part Fire, but she is fairly slow and her defense is hardly perfect...

Could someone please explain in full? Or is it just, well, "Perma-sand and she can take some hits"?



along with what you said, which the others are lacking. Sand also makes a lot of other things (Rin, Mamizou, Kagerou) much more obnoxious than they normally would be.
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya

Offline andaltmorf

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2014, 07:17:01 AM »
Ah, missed that one, somehow. The ideal sand-team lead, then. Perma-sand, and enough defenses and health to get spikes down, possibly multiple layers.

Taking another look, Substitute and Toxic are also present in her movepool via the relearner and TM respectively, so definitely a top-tier lead...and probably almost always packing Leftovers, to get at least a little tanking in.

I tend to think of puppets' useability in terms of mid-to-late battle, so 'ideal lead' never seems to come to mind no matter what I'm looking at. Thanks for clearing that up.
Momiji is a Tengu guard.
Aya is a Tengu civilian.
Guards protect civilians because they're stronger than the civilians, right?

Offline joshcja

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2014, 10:47:52 AM »
Suika will rarely lead on sand herself tbh cause saying "I r sand" turn one is a generaly bad plan. Sand has some glaring weaknesses as an archetype (Lunarians and burds) so you'll see a lot of S medi's/antileads/Trick banders

That said what puts suika at S is her flat bulk+sand+spikes with 120/80/120 bulk she's just one of those mon's you flat out fail to ohko with anything short of a high powered boosted SE 120 base stab off something silly strong. She hits back with solid coverage or simply toxics or spikes on your face and is almost always run with "standard" sand structure of cat/nature/steel making any attempt to straight kill her a flat joke. Or in other words she gives up 0 free turns spinblocks her own spikes and is super fucking annoying to swap into at anythign resemblign full hp while turning cat/doge/racoon lady into satan, no expanation, just satan.

A suika and T suika lack the bulk that makes her normal form so fuck all annoying however they hold respectable niches.

ASuika can be run either on offensive sand that lacks a need for Suikas fat or as a hard counter to sand itself with high str bulk up.

T suika is uuuuuh...special. (shot)

If I kept logs I'd post some of Suika making ZNova cry manly tears here v.v, since I dont lets just say he has like...5 teams made specificly to counter sand semi with everything from 6 lum users (all of which have taunt) to rain dance spam + asuika. Thats how good fat oni is
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 10:51:11 AM by joshcja »

Offline Doesnt

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Re: Shoddy "Standard" Viability Ranking Thread
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2015, 02:26:34 AM »
why are reimu and byakuren both in C

you put eiki in C too so don't give me that as an explanation
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya