Author Topic: [WIP] Mai  (Read 2189 times)

Offline Maltie

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[WIP] Mai
« on: November 17, 2013, 11:45:33 PM »
WIP: Movesets are still bound to be discovered. Right now, I'm playing around with Mai's movepool to find something else.

Mai

Hope I did this right coughcough
Type: Ice/Dark
Ability: Insomnia/Rain Dish
HP: 80
Atk: 70
Def: 65
Sp. Att: 90
Sp. Def: 130
Spd: 90

Mai is a really good special wall, but as a defensive wall? Not so much. However, if you invest in her EVs correctly, Mai can be a great puppet to use because of her ability to suck up most special attacks and being able to dish out pretty powerful special attacks, too.

Set: Melted Ice Mage (Best suited for rain teams)
Mai @ Thick Fur/ Swimsuit
Ability: Rain Dish
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
EVs: 132 HP (Totalling to 334 at lvl 100), 252 Def (Totalling to 229 at lvl 100), 126 Sp. Atk (Totalling to 247 at lvl 100)

Moves
-Ice Beam/Blizzard
-Nasty Plot
-Reflect
-Surf/Water Pulse

When paired with a puppet with Drizzle/Rain Dance, this set can really destroy. Rain Dish makes up for Leftovers in the rain, so she doesn't need that. Having the Swimsuit on Mai, along with rainy weather, the added Sp.Atk EVs, and possibly a few Nasty Plot stacks makes Water Pulse or Surf very powerful. The reason why Water Pulse could be an option is because though it's weaker than Surf, it has the ability to confuse. Having Thick Fur on only powers up Ice Beam/Blizzard, and Rain Dance doesn't affect Mai as much as it could with the Swimsuit. Plus, having Rain Dance on makes Mai more resistant to powerful Fire-type moves that could actually knock her out.
With the invested EVs in this set, Mai can be about as fast as Yorihime and AShou and can outspeed Youmu and DYoumu, which are all huge threats to Mai. With Rain Dance, too, Mai can suck up even a Flare Blitz from AdMokou.

That's my first set I've ever done don't judge me

Support
This Mai set, along with other Mai sets others can think of that use Rain Dish, needs Drizzle or Rain Dance to be completely effective. This means that out-of-shoddy, SGSanae would basically be the perfect match for Mai. In Shoddy, however, any Rain Dance user would be effective. Mai herself can even use Rain Dance, so a possible set that could use that would be great. Mai also has many weaknesses, steel being the main weakness, so puppets that can also suck up all of Mai's weaknesses would work fine. However, the best counterpart for Mai (In and out of shoddy) would definitely be DSuwako since she can suck up every single one of Mai's weaknesses, and can use Rain Dance.

Counters
Many physical attackers can wipe out Mai because of her low Defense, but because of Rain Dance and Drizzle, physical Fire-types like all forms of Mokou don't exactly do as much damage as they would without the rain. Without the rain, however, Mokou is a large threat to Mai. Also, just because Mai's as fast (with the invested EVs) as Yorihime and AShou doesn't mean that they can still wipe her out. Mai's 2 largest counters are definitely SYoumu and Youki because of their blinding speed and insanely powerful attack. In fact, one Drawn Line from both can OHKO Mai. Definitely have someone on your team who can suck up Mai's weaknesses.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 03:46:15 AM by Maltie »

Offline DoctorShanks

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Re: Mai
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2013, 01:04:37 AM »
Constructive criticism time.

This is just my opinion, but I think Mai really wants Sleep immunity in Insomnia to give her more opportunities to switch in and set up Nasty Plot, especially on stuff like Speed Medicine and Mamizou. Rain Dish is neat, but I would rather use that on a defensive set. Slash Reflect for Rain Dance; I think Mai would much rather set up Rain herself, in the case that DSuwako or Nitori aren't around (Keep in mind Faith doesn't resist Faith in this game).

The nature and EV investment is questionable. What physical threat(s) is Mai trying to take hits from? Can she survive any Blade Flashes that she otherwise couldn't with no Defensive investment? Also, an alternative spread consisting of Modest Nature and 132HP/252Def/40SpA/84Spd accomplishes the same stat distribution with 1 extra Special Attack. The SpA/Spe investments can be changed to 36SpA/88Spd instead in order to speed-creep base 100's with 4 Spd EVs. However, it should be noted that there is pretty much no such thing as a puppet with base 100 Speed that isn't running some kind of speed Investment, except maybe Layla, DSunny, or DRemilia (idk I never used those three to great success). Non-mixed variants of Yorihime, and AShou both always run Speed investment, the former of which will always outspeed and OHKO Mai.

Instead, I would suggest a final spread of Modest with 132HP/252Def/120SpA/4Spd. This Gives Mai more Special Attack and still allows her to outpace uninvested base 90's. More HP investment could be worthwhile for Rain Dish.

Toyohime sounds like a great team mate, as she can take Steel-typed attacks aimed at her and retaliate with Ancient Power or a Rain-boosted Surf... or Whirlwind depending on the situation. Mai isn't taking Steel-type attacks by herself. With that spread, she may survive the odd Blade Flash or Sonicboom, but team support is a must for this.

All in all, this set is a nice surprise for opposing Fire-types, but that's about it. She would be a lot cooler if she got Recover or something.  Personally, I like my Mai's with Insomnia. Hopefully I helped a little.

Offline Maltie

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Re: Mai
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 02:07:40 AM »
Constructive criticism time.

This is just my opinion, but I think Mai really wants Sleep immunity in Insomnia to give her more opportunities to switch in and set up Nasty Plot, especially on stuff like Speed Medicine and Mamizou. Rain Dish is neat, but I would rather use that on a defensive set. Slash Reflect for Rain Dance; I think Mai would much rather set up Rain herself, in the case that DSuwako or Nitori aren't around (Keep in mind Faith doesn't resist Faith in this game).

The nature and EV investment is questionable. What physical threat(s) is Mai trying to take hits from? Can she survive any Blade Flashes that she otherwise couldn't with no Defensive investment? Also, an alternative spread consisting of Modest Nature and 132HP/252Def/40SpA/84Spd accomplishes the same stat distribution with 1 extra Special Attack. The SpA/Spe investments can be changed to 36SpA/88Spd instead in order to speed-creep base 100's with 4 Spd EVs. However, it should be noted that there is pretty much no such thing as a puppet with base 100 Speed that isn't running some kind of speed Investment, except maybe Layla, DSunny, or DRemilia (idk I never used those three to great success). Non-mixed variants of Yorihime, and AShou both always run Speed investment, the former of which will always outspeed and OHKO Mai.

Instead, I would suggest a final spread of Modest with 132HP/252Def/120SpA/4Spd. This Gives Mai more Special Attack and still allows her to outpace uninvested base 90's. More HP investment could be worthwhile for Rain Dish.

Toyohime sounds like a great team mate, as she can take Steel-typed attacks aimed at her and retaliate with Ancient Power or a Rain-boosted Surf... or Whirlwind depending on the situation. Mai isn't taking Steel-type attacks by herself. With that spread, she may survive the odd Blade Flash or Sonicboom, but team support is a must for this.

All in all, this set is a nice surprise for opposing Fire-types, but that's about it. She would be a lot cooler if she got Recover or something.  Personally, I like my Mai's with Insomnia. Hopefully I helped a little.
I don't think TToyo has too much of an advantage over DSuwako, though, as TToyo can also take Faith and Heart hits, while DSuwako can only take Faith. DSuwako can also retaliate to Steel and Fire types since she can use a variety of Fire, Earth and Water moves. That's the one thing I disagree with, though. Everything else you said I completely agree with. I'll make a second set that includes her with Insomnia.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 02:10:09 AM by Maltie »

Offline DoctorShanks

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Re: Mai
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 02:14:45 AM »
I suggested ordinary Toyohime, not TToyohime. My reasoning for that is because of her sky-high Physical tanking capabilities. Toyo covers the Physical end while Mai covers for Special. DSuwako sounds good on paper too because of her typing.

Offline Maltie

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Re: Mai
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 02:23:13 AM »
Yeah, I realized you said plain Toyo right when I posted that, lol. But now that you mentioned Toyo and her really good Def, that actually sounds like a great idea. Geez, now I'm wishing for Mai to be Ice/Flying so she can suck up Nature moves for Toyo.

Offline joshcja

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Re: Mai
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 03:17:31 PM »
Mai needs enough speed to outrun Standard A Suwako and Sariel. Blade flash + Pursuit Yumeko will RUIN her without a sub and APatchouli is not something you want to give a free switchin ever. Not to mention Satori, Seiga, and T Byakuren can and will set up all over you. + walled by standard Spdef walls.

I normally run either....

Mai @ Salac Berry
Ability: Insomnia
EV's: 252 Spd/ 252 SpAtk/4 Hp
Modest nature (+Spatk, - Atk)
-Substitute
-Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse/Poison Bomb

Standard Sub Salac sweeper, nasty as hell if you pull it off and Mai's bulk allows you to freely set up on quite a few special attackers.

Or

Mai @ Leftovers/Thick Fur
Ability: Insomnia
Ev's: 252 Spatk/ 176 Spd/ 80 Hp
Timid nature (+Spd, - Atk)
-Lovely Kiss
-Substitute
-Dark Pulse/Poison Bomb/Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam

This is more of a "Fucking with you" set Sub when you can and then feel free to nuke away, Sleep can net you either a free turn of setup or simply turn off your opponents main counter to Mai. Thick fur and monoattacking ice beam works surprisingly well. Timid 176 speed outruns base 90 neutral fully invested and base 80 +speed fully invested

Poison bomb is just there to hit Star and D Kayuga.

With LK NP and a sub Mai can actually muscle her way through slower special walls (Fish lady and fast dual screeners will still give you hell though)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 03:39:39 PM by joshcja »

Offline joshcja

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Re: Mai
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 03:41:11 PM »
I suggested ordinary Toyohime, not TToyohime. My reasoning for that is because of her sky-high Physical tanking capabilities. Toyo covers the Physical end while Mai covers for Special. DSuwako sounds good on paper too because of her typing.

Also the whole walled by Murasa forms and giving them free rain issue. That core pretty much needs a Star Saphire form, D Kayuga, or Sariel to round things out.

Offline Maltie

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Re: Mai
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 10:57:32 PM »
Yeah, but if Mai doesn't have the def EVs, she can basically be OHKO'd by practically every physical Fire/Faith/Steel/Heart type (Not including Blade Flash and such). AMurasa seems like the only good pair for Mai too, leaving out Toyohime. AMurasa seems to be the same has Toyohime, the only thing that makes them different is their Sp.Att, Def, and Spd, and those stats don't even change by much. Both seem like great choices. Thanks guys!

Offline joshcja

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Re: Mai
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 12:27:15 AM »
Yeah, but if Mai doesn't have the def EVs, she can basically be OHKO'd by practically every physical Fire/Faith/Steel/Heart type (Not including Blade Flash and such). AMurasa seems like the only good pair for Mai too, leaving out Toyohime. AMurasa seems to be the same has Toyohime, the only thing that makes them different is their Sp.Att, Def, and Spd, and those stats don't even change by much. Both seem like great choices. Thanks guys!

She still kinda is, this is why we use substitute.