Author Topic: Typing  (Read 6019 times)

Offline KegMinami

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Typing
« on: November 27, 2015, 08:20:11 PM »
I was just curious about which types make up good cores, such as Fire/Water/Grass or Dragon/Fairy/Steel in Pokemon.
It seems like the typing in this game is maybe a little too balanced, but I was wondering if any particular cores stood out.
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Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Typing
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 02:25:14 AM »
The most obvious Defensive core I see is Water+Nature which combined cover eachother very well except for poison. However poison is massively underrepresented among the common puppets so you will likely not be taking any STAB poison hits letting something else take the hit for you. Though poison is a pretty common coverage move as it hits a large amount of popular puppets. Steel should get an honorable mention as a pairing with the other two as it is immune to poison resists some of the most common type moves and is a powerful offensive typing as well.


so in short... Water/Nature/Steel I guess? ...too lazy to look for more.
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Offline KegMinami

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Re: Typing
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 03:17:55 AM »
Water/Nature/Steel I guess? ...too lazy to look for more.

Thanks. That seems to be the most effective-looking core. I'm afraid I can't find too many myself.
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Offline ShadowWolfTJC

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Re: Typing
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2015, 04:39:06 AM »
After watching this video, I got into thinking about which move type combinations would be ideal for coverage in TPDP's metagame. From the looks of the Type Chart, if I wanted an ideal user of TPDP's equivalent of the Expert Belt, then perhaps I should look for a Puppet that knows Earth, Steel, Dark, and either Wind, Sound, or Nature Type moves in order to give it the widest super-effective coverage possible, with 12 of the 15 types being weak to any of these move types? Only the Water, Nature, Fighting, Illusion, and Sound Types have no weakness to either Earth, Steel, or Dark Type moves, though the Nature, Wind, and Sound Types can cover 2 of them (although Wind Type and Earth Type moves are both super-effective against the Poison Type). Sadly, I don't immediately know which Puppets can receive this kind of coverage.

Also, if I was solely looking for the widest possible neutral coverage, like with the classic BoltBeam combo from Pokemon, then perhaps Nether and either Dark or Illusion Type, would work? I noticed that the only type that resists Nether Type moves is Light Type, which is weak to Dark and Illusion Type moves. I also noticed that Earth and Wind Type moves seem to provide very high neutral coverage as well, along with being super-effective against a wider variety of Types. Same goes for Dark and Sound Type together, for Light and Illusion Type together, and for Water and Poison Type together.

However, I have yet to account for dual-types and abilities, so I'm still unsure as to which move Type combinations will actually be super-effective against the widest possible amount of Puppets. However, from my research at the TPDP wiki, I've found out about the following:
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Dark and Nether Type moves are Speed Shinki with Dark Clothing, Defense Sariel with Inverse Reaction, and Assist Akyuu, though all are weak to Illusion Type moves.
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Nether and Illusion Type moves are Power Yumemi with Unwavering Heart, Assist Sekibanki with Ghost Whisperer, Power Kaguya, and Power Kokoro, though with the exception of Assist Sekibanki, all are weak to Dark Type moves.
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Earth and Wind Type moves are Power Iku with Air Cushion, Speed Iku, Speed Ellen with Air Cushion, Power Elly, Power Mystia with Smooth Sailing, and Assist Akyuu.
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Dark and Sound Type moves are Power Lyrica with Sound Absorb, and Power Merlin with Sound Absorb, and they're both weak to Wind Type moves. Possibly the best normal-effective coverage?
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Light and Illusion Type moves are Power Yumemi with Unwavering Heart, Power Yukari, Defense Reimu, Assist Koishi, Power Kokoro, Power Lily, Speed Gyokuto, Power Kaguya, Speed Rikako, Power Komachi, and Power Nitori. That's surprisingly alot if you ask me.
  • The only Puppets that are resistant or immune to both Water and Poison Type moves are Assist Kana, Speed Lyrica, Assist Merlin, Assist Lunasa, Defense Lunasa, Speed Rikako, Power Komachi, and Power Nitori. Again, that's surprisingly alot if you ask me.

Anyone know of any other neat offensive move Type combos? What about Puppets that can learn damaging moves that are of the Earth, Steel, Dark, and either the Nature, Wind, or Sound Type, like Defense Ran, Power Mamizou, Speed Nazrin, or Speed Youmu?

Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Typing
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2015, 05:47:39 AM »
Another thing to keep in mind when thinking of type coverage is that not every type is equally represented in true competitive play.. I posted a topic analyzing the meta game awhile back which showed the distribution of types at different tiers if you want to look over that.
Puppet Dance Performance Any% speedrun in 1:42:38 (WR) http://www.twitch.tv/greenmittenz/v/17460931

Offline ShadowWolfTJC

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Re: Typing
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 02:58:42 AM »
If only there was a convenient database like this for TPDP. Then, it could be alot easier to find out which move type combinations would truly be super-effective against the widest number of Puppets possible (and would verify whether or not a combination of Earth, Steel, Dark, and either Wind, Nature, or Sound Type moves would be the best at exploiting the weaknesses of the widest number of Puppets possible).

Although your chart claims that, among the puppets in the OU tier, Earth Type attacks, followed by Electric, Fighting, and Sound Type attacks, have the largest amount of super-effective hits against them, what's to say that there isn't any overlap in terms of weaknesses (such as certain Puppets being weak to, say, both Earth and Fighting Type attacks)? I personally have little need for such redundancy.

Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Typing
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 07:01:52 AM »
If only there was a convenient database like this for TPDP. Then, it could be alot easier to find out which move type combinations would truly be super-effective against the widest number of Puppets possible (and would verify whether or not a combination of Earth, Steel, Dark, and either Wind, Nature, or Sound Type moves would be the best at exploiting the weaknesses of the widest number of Puppets possible).

Although your chart claims that, among the puppets in the OU tier, Earth Type attacks, followed by Electric, Fighting, and Sound Type attacks, have the largest amount of super-effective hits against them, what's to say that there isn't any overlap in terms of weaknesses (such as certain Puppets being weak to, say, both Earth and Fighting Type attacks)? I personally have little need for such redundancy.

I already had the Puppet DB built so I threw some stuff together and made some formula's to make just that. :) Also added in a filter for Tier ranking.

Some notes first...
The count is the total number of puppets in the database list which has multiple entries for the puppet's different abilities, this means that the data is slightly skewed as puppets with only 1 ability will only appear once and abilities on puppets that will never get used are still being counted when they probably shouldn't.
Also I never bothered collecting usage data for normal form puppets so they do not have a tier label and are never counted. Not really that important as you would never use them in competitive play but just keep it in mind.

Now the actual calculator (Hopefully you have excel or something that can open excel documents without butchering formulas)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/8aejr1scqbza81a
Puppet Dance Performance Any% speedrun in 1:42:38 (WR) http://www.twitch.tv/greenmittenz/v/17460931

Offline ShadowWolfTJC

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Re: Typing
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 05:29:34 AM »
It works nicely, although it doesn't seem to list which Puppets are weak, resistant, or immune to each combination. Still, it's pleasing to know that a Puppet with a combination of Earth, Steel, Dark, and Sound can hit 391 of the 459 listed possible Puppet/ability combinations (excluding Normal-styled Puppets) in all tiers combined.

Offline ShadowWolfTJC

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Re: Typing
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2016, 03:11:40 AM »
By the way, Greenmittenz, have you thought about creating a list of tools that you've made so far, like the calculator that you built? I expect this forum to expand somewhat, and I fear that such useful tools would end up getting lost in the expanding sea of threads. In fact, I'm guessing that that isn't the only thing that you've made so far. :)