Author Topic: Questions  (Read 15971 times)

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2015, 01:49:34 PM »
Uhm...I think I've encountered a bug or the most OP move in the game.

What's the deal with Twister? Always 5-hit with a huge damage per hit? I almost lost to Reimu thanks to that...(Assist Chen saved the day, but that's not how I like to play).
EDIT: I fought another Aya, and that only got 2 hits...bad luck with Reimu I guess XD

Also, what's the deal with Momiji's ability, fair and square? For what I've seen, acts kinda like Focus Band, leaving her with 1HP. But then she use Restitution, and my poor LV 41 Alice lose to a LV 30 Momiji...

Other than these 2 things, it's still a fair challenge.

Also, when is a good idea to start reinforcing Stats? I never used, because I was planning to save them for when I'll build my team for the final boss of the game (Or bosses? If it was a Pokèmon game, I would say the E4, but here?).

Also, what's the use of Magical Fragments? Ingame description says "They could be useful", but I never found a use for them.

EDIT2: Beat Sanae...again, nailed (1HP left!) thanks to my lv 51 Chen. I need to grind a lot I think...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 02:34:50 PM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
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Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Questions
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2015, 04:14:27 AM »
Aya Power has the Salvo ability which makes the 2-5 hit moves always hit 5 times.

Fair and Square works like the Sturdy ability in pokemon, if you would get one shot from full health then you survive with 1 hp. Restitution is like Endeavor from pokemon (sets opponents hp equal to your HP) and the way the AI works is that it will select the most powerful min damage move that appears first on the list and is selected knowing the results of what you selected. So if you take them from full to 1hp they will almost always use Restitution to set you to 1 as well.

You should probably start reinforcing stats pretty much immediately or whenever you find things are a bit of a challenge I guess. Every boss in the game uses stat reinforcement so not putting stats in is just crippling yourself and there is no benefit to waiting as it is just like EVs and the points will scale up with your level.

Magical Fragments are used as currency to reincarnate puppets at end game. Its good to keep a ton around but also not very hard to farm up a ton as well.

After Sanae the speedrun has a lv 45 Chen Assist, lv 38 Akyuu Assist, and a lv 33 Keine Normal which you change into Defense for the next fight. So you shouldn't NEED to grind but certainly if you haven't been putting in stat points then that will hurt you quite a bit.
Puppet Dance Performance Any% speedrun in 1:42:38 (WR) http://www.twitch.tv/greenmittenz/v/17460931

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2015, 08:12:12 AM »
 
Aya Power has the Salvo ability which makes the 2-5 hit moves always hit 5 times.

Fair and Square works like the Sturdy ability in pokemon, if you would get one shot from full health then you survive with 1 hp. Restitution is like Endeavor from pokemon (sets opponents hp equal to your HP) and the way the AI works is that it will select the most powerful min damage move that appears first on the list and is selected knowing the results of what you selected. So if you take them from full to 1hp they will almost always use Restitution to set you to 1 as well.

You should probably start reinforcing stats pretty much immediately or whenever you find things are a bit of a challenge I guess. Every boss in the game uses stat reinforcement so not putting stats in is just crippling yourself and there is no benefit to waiting as it is just like EVs and the points will scale up with your level.

Magical Fragments are used as currency to reincarnate puppets at end game. Its good to keep a ton around but also not very hard to farm up a ton as well.

After Sanae the speedrun has a lv 45 Chen Assist, lv 38 Akyuu Assist, and a lv 33 Keine Normal which you change into Defense for the next fight. So you shouldn't NEED to grind but certainly if you haven't been putting in stat points then that will hurt you quite a bit.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I reinforced my stats because I was losing badly against Kanako, and then I won pretty easily. I hope I didn't put them in the wrong places, I'm not a hardcore Pokèmon Expert.

Another thing I noticed is that before pumping my stats, every enemy would be faster than me, even if they were 15LVs below me (even Power and Defense). Now it seems more balanced.

Also, I got Rocksmash and Fly ^_^ But I don't know where I'm supposed to go. Sanae mentioned once a rock that could be smashed at the base of the mountain, but I didn't found anything. I found a giant hole with a Fairy that says "You can't go here", near a sign that says "Highly poisoned area". I've checked Yuyuko's tree again, but nothing there. I can't go towards the Sun Garden and stuff, because 2 NPCs stop me saying "You don't have the permission to go here". I'm clueless :O
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 09:01:26 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Questions
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2015, 11:05:23 AM »
If you check the map there are 2 routes you haven't explored yet. One is the one south west of the Human Village which is still blocked by the two npc's like you mentioned and the other is the little offshoot route going north from route 1 (the path from the Shrine to the Human Village.

And ya the game is certainly balanced around assuming you invest your points into stats as any named trainer will have perfect S ranks in all stats and any important fight will have PP invested into at least one important stat.

For example the very first Reimu fight has 64 Speed invested into her Aya meaning you would need speed investment to outspeed her level 10 Aya with a level 16 neutral speed natured Chen.
Puppet Dance Performance Any% speedrun in 1:42:38 (WR) http://www.twitch.tv/greenmittenz/v/17460931

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2015, 11:25:19 AM »
Didn't know about that. Well, can't complain here, since they ARE bosses after all. If they were pushover like every trainer, what's the point? Now I understand why that PAya of Reimu was so OP. Still, I managed to take her down with my DMurasa.

Also, how did I miss the Underground area? I wasn't looking at that part of the map at all.

Thanks for the tips so far. I'm really enjoying the game, and I would like to spend more hours every day, but work and HDN3 keep me busy...too bad that I can't play it on my PSP while I burn my fat.

EDIT: Puppet liberation front defeated, Yuuka defeated, can't go pass Suika in HAkurei Mountain, Yuyuko's tree doesn't trigger anything, and Chen still doesn't fight at all, and she's lv 73, while the other are 68-69...

Welp, I'm stuck. I guess I have to reach Makai now, but I don't know where is it (I know that is the last place of the game).

EDIT: Found the way.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 08:20:04 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2015, 08:20:57 AM »
Double post for bumpin reasons.

Ok, I've found the most broken enemy in the game: Yumeko's Yumeko. 5 hits move that does tons of damange (Always half of my health), she always hits first, and she always make me flinch >_<

I've tried a different approach, and...she's faster than my 256 speed AChen, which is the most fast thing I can throw at her. WOW.

EDIT: I won by pure luck. I went with Confinement with Alice, but she was faster and 5-hits me, but without flinch. After she was Paralyzed, I just one-shotted her with Alice...with a Critical Hit, so double victory!

Now only Shinki awaits...and I'm afraid of the cheapest move that the game will throw at me :O

EDIT: Beat the game. Shinki was much more easier than Yumeko, and I cheated using the Full Revive items while she was confused...not that I feel bad about it, she got instantly healed of her confusion the first time.

Now for the postgame...can't defeat Suwako, can't defeat Sanae, can't defeat Elite 4, Kasen's wild give little experience, Reincarnation is a nice feature, but Magical Fragments farm is a pain, since it's online only...I think I'm lost.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 11:51:48 AM by QwaserKuro »

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline decondelite

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Re: Questions
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2015, 03:04:16 PM »
One thing has been forgotten in everything that has been said.

Puppets with a higher Cost also have higher stats overall, so it balances out the higher training speed of lower Cost puppets. Basically, as far as I noticed, a Cot 80 puppet and a Cost 100 puppet have an equivalent strength for the same amount of XP, but the Cost 80 will have a higher level.
Except that when you reach the level 100 with a Cost 80 puppet, a Cost 100 puppet with the same amount of XP isn't level 100 yet, and therefore still can get stronger.

So in the end puppets with a higher cost are more powerful, and I think that it really sucks. It really limits your choices to beat the last bosses, notably. You still can try to build good tactics with Cost 80 puppets in an attempt to compensate this, but for some of them it's just a no-no. I really wanted to cry when I saw my ALuize and my PRumia's stats at lvl100 (both are Cost 80), when I compared them to my Cost 110-120 puppet's.

This cost thing and what puppets are of a high cost is what really killed the endgame for me, as I am somehow forced to play certain puppets and to ditch some others. Hence I cannot really play who I really want. Having certain moves being stronger against higher cost puppets doesn't balance it at all, especially when you would just hit harder with a basic high power move. Being able to build Perfect IVs isn't enough to compensate it either, and I'd even say that it plain kills the concept of IVs itself.

Call me the day when Cost 80 are finally getting some kind of buff. :(

Offline Greenmittenz

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Re: Questions
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2015, 11:32:57 PM »
If you are talking about end game stuff not sure what you are really talking about... O.o ChenA is broken, RumiaP effectively has base 217 spread attack and DaiyouseiD makes for an extremely potent late game wall. Also Wakasagi Kogasa, the list goes on and if you include 90 cost as well then you have KeineD and MomijiS which are both powerhouses.

Higher cost might have a slightly higher total base stats but not enough to make a significant difference in your choices for late game puppets and a level 100 80Cost will have far more stats than a level 81 120 cost. The more important factor is where the stats are allocated typing movepool and ability.

Unless you are talking about building competitive teams and then  unfortunately you are optimizing for the best possible thing you can do (though 80 costs still have a chance there) but trained 80 cost puppets can easily dispatch all the post game fights.



Kasen's wilds are the best EXP until you can solo Yuki rematch (a level 100 Chen should have no troubles) then just keep killing her and reseting.. Aya is probably the best puppet for grinding others as she can quite easily solo Yuki, Mai and Yumeko before gapping back to start again. You should be able to get 2 6S rank puppets in about 50-100 magical fragments and then from there it will only take like 10-20 fragments to make perfect puppets. Fastest place to farm fragments is Mayohiga but you should get tons from exp grinding in general as literally everything in the game has at least a 20% chance to drop fragments if they drop an item.

Might make a video on how to make 2 6s rank puppets efficiently at some point but... lazy x.x
Puppet Dance Performance Any% speedrun in 1:42:38 (WR) http://www.twitch.tv/greenmittenz/v/17460931

Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2015, 10:18:21 PM »
Yeah, I forgot to update.

For now, I took a break from the game. I managed to defeat Suwako, and most of all, I started reincarnating puppets, distributing the stats in a more efficient way. Now the problem of being slower than my opponent disappeared.

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki

Offline decondelite

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Re: Questions
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2015, 08:33:34 PM »
If you are talking about end game stuff not sure what you are really talking about... O.o ChenA is broken, RumiaP effectively has base 217 spread attack and DaiyouseiD makes for an extremely potent late game wall. Also Wakasagi Kogasa, the list goes on and if you include 90 cost as well then you have KeineD and MomijiS which are both powerhouses.

Higher cost might have a slightly higher total base stats but not enough to make a significant difference in your choices for late game puppets and a level 100 80Cost will have far more stats than a level 81 120 cost. The more important factor is where the stats are allocated typing movepool and ability.

Unless you are talking about building competitive teams and then  unfortunately you are optimizing for the best possible thing you can do (though 80 costs still have a chance there) but trained 80 cost puppets can easily dispatch all the post game fights.



Kasen's wilds are the best EXP until you can solo Yuki rematch (a level 100 Chen should have no troubles) then just keep killing her and reseting.. Aya is probably the best puppet for grinding others as she can quite easily solo Yuki, Mai and Yumeko before gapping back to start again. You should be able to get 2 6S rank puppets in about 50-100 magical fragments and then from there it will only take like 10-20 fragments to make perfect puppets. Fastest place to farm fragments is Mayohiga but you should get tons from exp grinding in general as literally everything in the game has at least a 20% chance to drop fragments if they drop an item.

Might make a video on how to make 2 6s rank puppets efficiently at some point but... lazy x.x

Power Rumia is completely USELESS, because she cannot stand damage AND is too slow.
Defense Luize is completely helpless aswell, because she's just not fast enough to make the opponent flinch, while flinching is the main reason to have her secondary effect boost. That is, if she's lucky enough to make the 60% flinching actually work.
Defense Keine (I'm assuming with Hakutaku ability) is barely any useful aswell, because it takes her to take damage AND remain alive to start kicking some ass. That is, if she's quicker than her opponent after transforming.
Assist Akyuu is a joke aswell, because if on the paper she might be able to kick some ass by trapping the opponent in a slow and agonizing death, the reality is that just every enemy puppet is polyvalent enough to have at least one move to beat up the poor Akyuu.
Assist Kotohime is the worst, with her very average stats, her lack of powerful moves, lack of defense, and a next to useless ability.

And besides this, all the Cost 110-120 that I have raised have their fair share of fearsome power and/or speed. My only useful 80 power that I tried are Speed Dai, Power Lily (both for Fairy Dance+Energy Absorb), and Assist Chen. All the rest is MEH.

Sure you do can make something not too bad out of some 80-90 cost, but that just won't cut out the fact that 110-120 remain superior to them. Even if these 80 Cost are playable, it takes them quite some strategy to make something out of them, while Cost 110-120 can just spam the bigass powerful attacks and call it a day. And the "bigass attack spam" is basically all the endgame is made of, by the way.

Offline CrucialTwinz

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Re: Questions
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2015, 08:30:06 AM »
But Hatate is cost 100, and the best thing ever.
*insert flavor text here*

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Offline KuroShinki

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Re: Questions
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2015, 12:33:36 PM »
And the "bigass attack spam" is basically all the endgame is made of, by the way.

Agree, same problem as Pokèmon: the battles at high level are just short. The winner is the one who has more speed and type advantage. I found that the same remains in this game, too. It's clearly shown during the "Elite 4" fight.

I'm not bashing Pokèmon, of course. I love the games up to R/S/E, but they could use a little fix...but that would ruin the uniqueness that the Pokèmon games are. Touhou Puppet Dance tries to fix many problems, and actually succeed: breeding system done without randomness (almost)? Yes, please.

What can be done is a Touhou RPG with the same concept as Pokèmon (travel in Gensokyo, collecting Touhou characters, evolving etc), but done differently: Touhou Pocket Wars 2nd goes into the right direction, but still it's not close, because of the grinding and the randomness that can happen in battle.

I have to admit one thing, tough: I always thought about doing a Touhou RPG with RPG Maker, but it requires attention and creativity, and I lack both. Also, I still have to finish one project in RPG Maker...I guess I can half quote Sakaguchi here: "I don't have what it takes to make an action game. I think I'm better at telling a story".

My favorite videogame is Final Fantasy X (not the remastered garbage).
My favourite anime/manga is Gintama.
My favourite band is Foreground Eclipse
Skype: cloudstrife.91
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLMpzqHXnvwXvVDUBB7EPyQ
Overwatch (PC): KuroShinki