Author Topic: Attack Keine  (Read 6003 times)

Offline joshcja

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 06:07:12 PM »
It's definitely not mainstream, but that doesn't stop it from being a valid option.

It does not consistently outperform another variant of the set and relies on surprise value.

Running a 75 BP move over a 120 bp move with no real utility gain = gimmick.

Offline Naļ

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 06:41:09 PM »
You're only looking at the BPs. It isn't "switching a 75 BP move over a 120 BP move with no real utility gain", it's switching a 120 BP/90% move for a 75 BP/100% one + 50% defense drops + attack drops. Unless you want to run Intimidate Head Smash, but there's no point in running Intimidate if you're slowly killing yourself.

It doesn't really rely on surprise value, though it is definitely a useful plus: Attack + defense drops are still scary even if you know they're coming, unless you have something with Magic Barrier, or, uh, Haze.


I haven't tested the set, but it's hard to tell whether or not it does consistently outperform another variant when neither of us have tried using it, you know.

Offline joshcja

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 06:46:00 PM »
You're only looking at the BPs. It isn't "switching a 75 BP move over a 120 BP move with no real utility gain", it's switching a 120 BP/90% move for a 75 BP/100% one + 50% defense drops + attack drops. Unless you want to run Intimidate Head Smash, but there's no point in running Intimidate if you're slowly killing yourself.

It doesn't really rely on surprise value, though it is definitely a useful plus: Attack + defense drops are still scary even if you know they're coming, unless you have something with Magic Barrier, or, uh, Haze.


I haven't tested the set, but it's hard to tell whether or not it does consistently outperform another variant when neither of us have tried using it, you know.

Test sets

Offline Naļ

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 06:55:29 PM »
Quote from: Josh
It does not consistently outperform another variant of the set and relies on surprise value.
Quote from: Josh
Test sets
Quote from: Naļ
(...) when neither of us have tried using it, you know.
Right back at ya

Offline joshcja

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 07:01:22 PM »
Right back at ya

*posts sets after testing*

No

Offline Naļ

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2013, 02:31:33 PM »
That's not what I meant. You seem to have missed the point where you outright claimed it was inconsistent without having tested it out yourself.

Quote from: Josh
It does not consistently outperform another variant of the set and relies on surprise value.
This is merely your opinion. If you don't back it up by arguments, then it'll be just that, an opinion.


Then, you might argue you did try to back it up, by this quote:
Quote from: Josh
Running a 75 BP move over a 120 bp move with no real utility gain = gimmick.
However, that's disconsidering my counter-argument:
Quote from: Naļ
You're only looking at the BPs. It isn't "switching a 75 BP move over a 120 BP move with no real utility gain", it's switching a 120 BP/90% move for a 75 BP/100% one + 50% defense drops + attack drops. Unless you want to run Intimidate Head Smash, but there's no point in running Intimidate if you're slowly killing yourself.



Also, the original wording of the set I posted doesn't really imply I tested it. If a set isn't tested, it may still be posted for discussion, which is what we were doing until you started assuming the set wasn't worth discussing.
(I'll still edit the post and make the language a bit more subjective, though, to make it absolutely clear it's an idea.)

Either way, why should a set not be worth discussing if it isn't tested? Why isn't an idea worth discussing?
If you don't want to discuss it, then don't, but don't make it sound as if the set is automatically worthless, if you would.

EDIT: also, this thing. About "Theorymon".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 06:07:04 PM by Naļ »

Offline joshcja

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2013, 07:33:55 PM »

Also, the original wording of the set I posted doesn't really imply I tested it. If a set isn't tested, it may still be posted for discussion, which is what we were doing until you started assuming the set wasn't worth discussing.
(I'll still edit the post and make the language a bit more subjective, though, to make it absolutely clear it's an idea.)

Either way, why should a set not be worth discussing if it isn't tested? Why isn't an idea worth discussing?
If you don't want to discuss it, then don't, but don't make it sound as if the set is automatically worthless, if you would.

EDIT: also, this thing. About "Theorymon".

fair enough

Offline Naļ

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Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2013, 11:38:00 PM »
I'm glad you understand.

Either way, I'll test the Crush Claw set myself later and see if it works. Depending on the test results, I'll make observations here accordingly.