Author Topic: Attack Keine  (Read 7762 times)

Offline Fireburn

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Attack Keine
« on: November 27, 2012, 04:39:17 AM »


Beast/Earth
85/130/70/60/70/105

Overview
  • Very powerful - 105 Speed is pretty quick and 130 Attack hits really hard.
  • Excellent dual STAB combination combined with Rock Head and two 120 BP STABs make Attack Keine a powerhouse capable of tearing through even the best physical walls.
  • Useful resistances to Ghost, Wind (immunity), Earth, and Miasma.
  • Weaknesses: Frail, no priority, suffers from common weaknesses to Nature, Flying, and Water (x4 weakness).

Standard Attacker

-Head Smash
-Double-Edge
-Steel Fist
-Poison Jab / Ice Punch
Item: Special Bloomers / Sports Sweater
Nature: Jolly (+Spd / -SpA)
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd

Attack Keine is ridiculously strong with the Special Bloomers equipped. To put it into perspective, her Head Smash 2HKOes 252 HP/252 Def Bold Defense Tenshi with 1 layer of Spikes, guaranteed. Yikes.

Thanks to Rock Head eliminating self-inflicted recoil damage, Attack Keine can freely use Head Smash and Double-Edge with no drawbacks, which will almost assuredly devastate anything that isn't a Flying-type or a Nature-type. Steel Fist crushes most Flying-types on a predicted switch, and is particularly useful for eliminating bulkier flying-types such as Tenma. Poison Jab wastes most Water- and Nature-types, and is particularly fatal to Defense Kaguya and Star Sapphire. However, Ice Punch allows Keine to cover Flying- and Nature-types in one move to ease prediction, and it also allows for the super-effective hit on Nature/Earth types. It loses the coverage on Water-types, but most of them won't enjoy a Head Smash anyway.

EVs are a standard sweeper spread, nothing new. Jolly is preferred for the nature as Attack Keine's 105 Speed is quite nice for such a powerhouse. Although Special Bloomers is the primary item, one can opt to use the Sports Sweater to keep Head Smash powered up (or the Bunny Costume for Double-Edge) to give Attack Keine freedom to change attacks while still maintaining respectable power.

Other Options


Intimidate is Attack Keine's other ability. It is quite a good one, and it can be used to afford to Attack Keine more opportunities to switch in. She does have the option of using Earthquake and Crush Claw as "safe" STABs with Intimidate, but the drop in power is significant and usually isn't worth it. Thunder Wave is an interesting option that can allow Attack Keine to cripple a potential revenge killer, but she is usually just better off plowing their face in with one of her powerful attacks. Taunt can shut down walls who are trying to set up, but again, Attack Keine is usually just better off straight up attacking. Attack Keine causes a lot of switches, so Pursuit is a good option to ensure runners don't get off scot-free.

Teammates

Attack Keine loves Spikes as they help her break down walls, and she also forces a lot of switches. Speed Aya is a particularly good partner as she can also Baton Pass Keine Speed Boosts. She also resists Attack Keine's weaknesses to Nature- and Flying-type attacks. Reliable Water-type counters are a must due to Attack Keine's x4 weakness, so Nature-, Faith-, and Wind-type puppets tend to make good partners. A Puppet that can take advantage of Attack Keine's ability to break walls is also helpful - rain sweepers such as Attack Murasa and Nitori are particularly good since Attack Keine tends to bait and weaken enemy Water- and Nature-types. Other physical sweepers such as Youmu also work well to pick off what Attack Keine has punched holes in.

Counters

Attack Keine's sheer power makes her tough to counter, mainly because switching in is a daunting task. Most Flying- and Nature-types work well as they resist Attack Keine's STAB attacks and can pick on her weaknesses. Aya forms, Defense Kaguya, and Star Sapphire are among the best choices so long as they avoid Attack Keine's coverage moves. Helper Star Sapphire is probably the best general answer to Attack Keine, only really fearing Poison Jab. Very durable physical walls such as Kikuri can weather a few hits and Toxic stall Attack Keine, but doing so is difficult due to her sheer damage output and the risk of taking a critical hit.

Thankfully, Attack Keine is much easier to revenge kill. Anything with a strong Water-type or Nature-type attacks with a Speed stat greater than 105 can usually fell her in one blow. Aqua Jet is like Kryptonite to her, as she cannot counter with any priority of her own.

_____________

Attack Keine is really good. :V

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 02:26:28 AM »
bump

Just an added note: isn't a setup like Head Smash/Double-edge/Ice Punch/Poison Jab rather valid, since Ice Punch already covers Flying types anyway, and also covers Natures, who are another common switch-in?

Offline DoctorShanks

  • :coolguys:
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 188
  • .
    • View Profile
    • dumblr
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 05:58:53 AM »
bump

Just an added note: isn't a setup like Head Smash/Double-edge/Ice Punch/Poison Jab rather valid, since Ice Punch already covers Flying types anyway, and also covers Natures, who are another common switch-in?

Steel Fist is stronger and covers Dark/Ice types as well. Poison Jab covers Natures and Water. Steel Fist is needed for offensive coverage.

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 06:05:54 AM »
Of course it's stronger, but it's not like its BP:accuracy ratio is the greatest ever.

I'm aware that the Nature coverage on Ice Punch seems redundant due to Poison Jab, but my point is that Ice Punch is a better move against predicted switch-ins than Steel Fist: of the types likely to switch in against her, Flying's the only type covered by the latter (that and it could just miss), while the former can cover for two common switch-in options.

Either way, while Steel Fist/Poison Jab does offer better overall coverage, Ice Punch is probably better on switch-in.

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 10:45:40 PM »
Of course it's stronger, but it's not like its BP:accuracy ratio is the greatest ever.

I'm aware that the Nature coverage on Ice Punch seems redundant due to Poison Jab, but my point is that Ice Punch is a better move against predicted switch-ins than Steel Fist: of the types likely to switch in against her, Flying's the only type covered by the latter (that and it could just miss), while the former can cover for two common switch-in options.

Either way, while Steel Fist/Poison Jab does offer better overall coverage, Ice Punch is probably better on switch-in.

earth/steel coverage is stupidly good and is only resisted by water/nature. P jab covers that.

Offline SG-Sanae

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 72
  • Sanae is a good girl
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2013, 11:22:07 AM »
If you bank on Attack Keine forcing switches and getting oppurtunity to set up, use Sharpen/Head Smash/Steel Fist/Poison Jab on a set with Lum Berry - basically the same power as the Bloomers set with the ability to switch moves. The loss of Double-Edge is hardly disruptive, since you already have perfect neutral coverage.

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2013, 11:00:31 AM »
Sharpen? That's a first... I can see it working, but isn't it best to just run something else with a better setup move instead?

If you want freedom to change moves, just run Sport Sweater or Bunny Costume, works well enough for me :<. I understand that the idea is that, after a single Sharpen, she'd hit as hard as her banded version, but eh.

Besides, AKeine is not the kind that can really stay in after setting up, and she isn't the type that can sweep after setting up either... those are what'd you expect of a setup user, instead of just running the setup move to cover for something you don't have.



Also this thing.
Quote from: Shanks
Steel Fist is stronger and covers Dark/Ice types as well. Poison Jab covers Natures and Water. Steel Fist is needed for offensive coverage.
Quote from: Josh
earth/steel coverage is stupidly good and is only resisted by water/nature. P jab covers that.

Yeah, I pretty much confirmed that myself after running Ice Punch + PJab AKeine for a while. There were many times when I was playing her and thought, "man why am i not running steel fist".

Ice Punch is a better all-around move on switch in, but normally it's kind of... obvious what they're going to switch into, or if they're going to switch at all. In those cases, Steel Fist really makes you miss it.

And then you just run Steel Fist instead and miss it on the switch in anyway

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2013, 07:25:05 AM »
A Keine forces enough switches that she can run...

Bloomers/Lum
Intimidate
252 atk/252 spd
Jolly

Earthquake
P jab
Steel fist
Pursuit

Intimidate lets her come in on resisted moves and threaten an ohko then pursuit the swap while threatening whatever comes in with perfect coverage.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 07:27:56 AM by joshcja »

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2013, 01:46:21 PM »
A more defensive Intimidate set probably works, too. Perhaps something like...

Lum/Leftovers (yep)
Intimidate
252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly, probably

Earthquake
Crush Claw
Poison Jab
Steel Fist

STAB Crush Claw on that attack stat should be pretty damn scary: hurts, yet has a very scary 50% effect. It's underrated, really. And thanks to Intimidate, she could just switch into things as she pleases.


(EDIT: language was made more subjective so as to make it clear that this is a set idea. However, the original version didn't imply it was a definite set, either.)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 02:33:20 PM by Naļ »

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2013, 05:18:32 PM »
A more defensive Intimidate set probably works, too. Perhaps something like...

Lum/Leftovers (yep)
Intimidate
252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly, probably

Earthquake
Crush Claw
Poison Jab
Steel Fist

STAB Crush Claw on that attack stat is pretty damn scary: hurts, yet has a very scary 50% effect. It's underrated, really. And thanks to Intimidate, she can just switch into things as she pleases.

...D Keine is a thing

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 05:23:19 PM »
Quote from: Naļ
252 Atk/252 Spd
It's a set meant to kill things and threaten with Crush Claw while still retaining the ability to switch-in without too much hassle.

DKeine can't do that.

Besides, moves like Crush Claw are pointless if they don't hurt to begin with. One might think the defense drop'd make up for the lack of damage, but it doesn't - I've tried running Crush Claw SG DTewi, and really, normal Tewi can do it ten times better.

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 05:34:13 PM »
Quote from: Naļ
252 Atk/252 Spd
It's a set meant to kill things and threaten with Crush Claw while still retaining the ability to switch-in without too much hassle.

DKeine can't do that.

Besides, moves like Crush Claw are pointless if they don't hurt to begin with. One might think the defense drop'd make up for the lack of damage, but it doesn't - I've tried running Crush Claw SG DTewi, and really, normal Tewi can do it ten times better.

Eh, A keine really wants to ohko or 2 hit ko on the swap cause bad bulk even with intimidate.

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2013, 05:43:11 PM »
The idea is to either use a coverage move or Crush Claw on the swap; if the latter, and if the defense drop procs (50%), you pretty much have a KO from there even without Spikes support - which, guess what, forces switches again.

Even if you don't manage the defense drop, however, the damage on Crush Claw is still very noticeable due to STAB, and the RNG won't screw you over either.

I know she's not too bulky even with Intimidate; the idea is more giving her the ability to switch-in and force switches than giving her "bulk". Like this, she can probably switch in, wreak some havoc, switch out and switch back in later without too much trouble.

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2013, 05:48:29 PM »
The idea is to either use a coverage move or Crush Claw on the swap; if the latter, and if the defense drop procs (50%), you pretty much have a KO from there even without Spikes support - which, guess what, forces switches again.

Even if you don't manage the defense drop, however, the damage on Crush Claw is still very noticeable due to STAB, and the RNG won't screw you over either.

I know she's not too bulky even with Intimidate; the idea is more giving her the ability to switch-in and force switches than giving her "bulk". Like this, she can probably switch in, wreak some havoc, switch out and switch back in later without too much trouble.

Meh, seems gimmicy

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: Attack Keine
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2013, 05:56:54 PM »
It's definitely not mainstream, but that doesn't stop it from being a valid option.