Author Topic: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP  (Read 4604 times)

Offline Game2014

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Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« on: August 18, 2014, 07:05:18 AM »
This is my list of Puppets with typing and abilities from the 6th gen., with some Megas thrown into the mix.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/sy770c

What do you think?

Full version: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ps1kul

EDIT: Some type corrections made.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:14:40 PM by Game2014 »

Offline SoulfulLex

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 12:59:48 PM »
Can you upload the file to another site (like Mediafire or Firedrive)? Either the link in your post is broken, or I was trying to access the site at a bad time.

Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 01:05:55 PM »
It's working for me.  Anyway, the link has been updated.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 01:31:27 PM by Game2014 »

Offline Yozora

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 09:41:29 PM »
Thoughts :
Simple Toyohime. If it was Tpp 1.8 TechToyo, RIP world. Also, Adaptability Yumemi, Regenerator Mokou, Protean Patchouli, Defiant Youki (eat your heart out Intimidate).
Drought... Utsuho... Run. Now.
I think you could slap Gale Wing on Aya on a harmless thing like Mystia (whose abilities are shitty anyway).
Poison Heal could work for Seija (it "reverses" the effect of Poison), Own Tempo is okay but meh.
Why is Konngara a Fairy Type, of all things, when it is definitively a knight (= Steel type) ?
Why Contrary/Sap Sipper Byakuren ? It sounds really weird to me when Magic Guard fits the character quite well.
Good ideas overall and abilities match most of their users.
inb4 Boomburst Aerilate Aya

Anyway,  to my mind a Gen VI TPP should be based on Touhoumon 1.8, because the 1.5 mechanics look horribly outdated and unbalanced (only 2 Bugs for a billion of Dark/Psychic/Normal). Also some types make absolutely no sense to me (Fire/Ice Yumemi... just why ?)

Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 05:12:36 AM »
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I think you could slap Gale Wing on Aya on a harmless thing like Mystia (whose abilities are shitty anyway).
Even in Pokemon, not every one of them has useful abilities.

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Why is Konngara a Fairy Type, of all things, when it is definitively a knight (= Steel type) ?
Her species, the yaksha, is considered a type of fairy.

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Why Contrary/Sap Sipper Byakuren ? It sounds really weird to me when Magic Guard fits the character quite well.
I gave her Sap Sipper based on the confirmation that she's a vegetarian.  I also intend for her to be a pseudo-legendary, and all pseudos in Pokemon have at least one immunity, which is also a reason for that ability.

As for Contrary, I originally thought it would be cool for her to have that ability and possess moves like Psycho Boost, Superpower, Close Combat, etc. so that she can abuse them.  Symposium of Post-mysticism says that there are many things about her that people don't know about or something like that, and I remember fans coming up with the theory that she's actually a shady person, which "contradicts" her peace-loving personality.

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Anyway,  to my mind a Gen VI TPP should be based on Touhoumon 1.8, because the 1.5 mechanics look horribly outdated and unbalanced (only 2 Bugs for a billion of Dark/Psychic/Normal). Also some types make absolutely no sense to me (Fire/Ice Yumemi... just why ?)
Though I got accustomed to 1.8 typing, I still prefer 1.5 typing.  That list is actually only a small part of a bigger list I made, which has some extra Bug-types thrown into it.

Yumemi is Fire/Ice-type because that is her typing in 1.5 versions.

Anyway, here's the full version of the list:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ps1kul
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:25:51 AM by Game2014 »

Offline Yozora

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 11:31:57 AM »
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I think you could slap Gale Wing on Aya on a harmless thing like Mystia (whose abilities are shitty anyway).
Even in Pokemon, not every one of them has useful abilities.

I was saying that you could use Gale Wing somewhere, since none of your Puppets have acces to it right now. It would be a nice buff to Mystia, since you have no reason to use her over all those broken Puppets.

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Why is Konngara a Fairy Type, of all things, when it is definitively a knight (= Steel type) ?
Her species, the yaksha, is considered a type of fairy.
I didn't know that. Anyway, Steel/Fairy or Steel/Fighting makes more sense than Fighting/Fairy (I know she's Fighting/Ghost in 1.5, but you can change it in your Gen VI hack...)

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Why Contrary/Sap Sipper Byakuren ? It sounds really weird to me when Magic Guard fits the character quite well.
I gave her Sap Sipper based on the confirmation that she's a vegetarian.  I also intend for her to be a pseudo-legendary, and all pseudos in Pokemon have at least one immunity, which is also a reason for that ability.

As for Contrary, I originally thought it would be cool for her to have that ability and possess moves like Psycho Boost, Superpower, Close Combat, etc. so that she can abuse them.  Symposium of Post-mysticism says that there are many things about her that people don't know about or something like that, and I remember fans coming up with the theory that she's actually a shady person, which "contradicts" her peace-loving personality.
It's a bit farfetched... Nobody will go that far to find the answer (for Contrary at least, it's not like she actually contradicts common sense like Seija). But do whatever you want, after all. Contrary seems a bit overpowered, even for a pseudo-legendary. If you want a immunity, maybe you could change Justified to make its users immune to Dark (like Sap Sipper). I don't know if it's possible...

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Anyway,  to my mind a Gen VI TPP should be based on Touhoumon 1.8, because the 1.5 mechanics look horribly outdated and unbalanced (only 2 Bugs for a billion of Dark/Psychic/Normal). Also some types make absolutely no sense to me (Fire/Ice Yumemi... just why ?)
Though I got accustomed to 1.8 typing, I still prefer 1.5 typing.  That list is actually only a small part of a bigger list I made, which has some extra Bug-types thrown into it.

Yumemi is Fire/Ice-type because that is her typing in 1.5 versions.
I know Yumemi is a Fire/Ice-type in the original 1.5, my question was : why was it the case in first place ? (and many Puppets have silly typings anyway).
You may prefer 1.5 typing, but remember that most people don't... If you want your game to be popular, then it's better to use 1.8 mechanics. It adds to the "Touhou feeling" : when playing 1.5 Tpp, I felt like I was just playing a bad, geeky, non polished Pokemon hack (I don't say it will be the case for your game, but you see the point). When playing Touhoumon Purple or Touhoumon Enhanced, I just felt like playing a great Touhou game. And making a Gen VI hack based on 1.5 feels like playing Pong on a Xbox. It's your hack though, so do what you want (sorry if I'm looking aggressive).

Uh, the only bugs you added are Pyonta (Bug/Fighting wtf ?! you're going wayyyy to far in the fandom, even if Pyonta is sometimes depicted a parasite...) and "Sake Bug"...

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Anyway, here's the full version of the list:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ps1kul
What are the Puppets from #143 to #158 ? I've never heard of them before... Are they PC98 stage ennemies (Like Tongue Ghost and Fairies) ? You can add Tori and 2hu too, I think.

Anyway, a Gen VI hack will have problems with Puppets' 3D sprite, and little is currently known about how it could be hacked. I don't say it's impossible, but it will be quite hard I think. A D/P/Pt hack looks more feasible.

Offline Agastya

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 12:05:44 PM »
i think you should play a 1.8 hack instead of basing everything off 1.5 standards honestly. a lot's changed, including balance.

especially the kongara thing, they are decidedly not a fairy in any sense of the term, and in 1.8 they're pure steel

also gale wings mystia would be terryfing due to gaining priority endeavor
not to mention 100 base attack compared to talonflames 81 or so
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:07:16 PM by Agastya »
[6:30:51] DoctorShanks: Is Star Sapphire actually good or do people just use her because she's cute? Or both?
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Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 12:13:07 PM »
The topic says "hypothetical," so this isn't being made at all.  It's just a "what if" if I am somehow skilled enough to make a generation 6 hack.

Basically, I was bored when I made all these.  I simply felt like sharing, that's all.

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i think you should play a 1.8 hack instead of basing everything off 1.5 standards honestly. a lot's changed, including balance.
I did play the 1.8 games before, and I do enjoy them.  The reason I envision things with the original types is that it allows a bit more creativity, if you can call it, when coming up with types for the Puppets.  For example: Mamizou is Nature/Beast-type in 1.8, both of which are predictable types for her, but in 1.5, there's no Beast-type.  While she can be pure Grass-type, it's more fun trying to come up with a possible secondary typing.  I chose Rock-type based on the fact that her last name has the word "rock" in it and that she can change into a stone statue in Touhou 13.5.

Honestly saying, the "brand" new types in 1.8 don't appeal to me in the way that they don't allow much creativity.  This Puppet is a follower of a certain religion?  Just slap Faith-type onto it.  This Puppet is based off a land animal?  Just slap Beast-type onto it.  No comment on Heart-type, though.  In fact, I don't even think I know the explanation behind it...

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What are the Puppets from #143 to #158 ? I've never heard of them before... Are they PC98 stage ennemies (Like Tongue Ghost and Fairies) ? You can add Tori and 2hu too, I think.
Mushroom Demon, Rain Fairy, Enenra, Dark Dragon, Dragon Child, Dapeng, Raijuu, and the Tsuchinoko are all from the official comics.  Divine Spirit is the mid-boss of Touhou 13.

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Uh, the only bugs you added are Pyonta (Bug/Fighting wtf ?!
http://tinypic.com/r/2iu5fo3/8

And there's also Mega Miko as a Bug-type, because I envision her Mega form having the butterfly wings seen in some of her spell cards in Touhou 13.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:36:47 PM by Game2014 »

Offline Yozora

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 08:28:03 PM »
also gale wings mystia would be terryfing due to gaining priority endeavor
not to mention 100 base attack compared to talonflames 81 or so

It was just a suggestion. In Tpp 1.5, Mystia has only 85 base attack (90/85/70/70/85/110), and no Brave Bird (her strongest move is White Wings, 95 BP iirc). In Game2014's hack, she would have 70 base Attk and 85 SpAttk (75/70/70/85/85/110). In Tpp 1.8, of course, her attack would have to be lowered (something like -20 Att, +20 HP). Otherwise, Tokiko has 80 base Attk too. And Gale Wing Mystia is the least of your problems when Adaptability Yumemi is tearing your team to shreds with her Fire Blasts coming from 135 SpAttk...

I understand you want to patch the general lack of Bug-Type, however MegaMiko being Bug-Type is about as logic as Konngara being a Fairy. I mean, Mokou isn't a Flying Type despite having a Phoenix aura.

The 1.8 types also allow creativity. For example, Futo can be a Faith, Water, Fire, Wind or Earth type, or any combination of them. Patchouli can be whatever you want. The most logical typing for Kokoro would be Steel/Heart, yet she's Ghost/Heart on Shoddy. If I made a hack, the Tsukumo would all be part Dream (at least Raiko), but none of them are on Shoddy. Eirin can be Water, Miasma, Dark, Reason... Same for Reason, Heart, Dream and Illusion types.

1.5 creativity is more like "roll a dice because none of the types fit this character and there aren't enough Bugs and Rocks anyway" to my mind (Rock type Shou, Normal everything, Rock Letty, Fire/Ice Yumemi, Dragon Shingyoku, Rock Mokou... I can somewhat understand the logic - Mokou because Fujiwara Vulcano, Shou 'cause she gathers precious gems - but everything is farfetched, you use a small detail of the character to justify its typing).

Offline Neotornado

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 11:25:06 PM »
Okay, probably a late reply, but here's some of my comments:

First off, about the Pyonta thing, I get the feeling that the only reason why hacks include that is because blue did it. (and type diversity I guess. bug/fighting makes a bit more sense if you see the Ex form's sprite, but it's still random and extremely "what the hell") The UFO's and the Yukkuris are on the same boat in that regard.
Secondly, while Pyonta is in the "way too deep into fanon" territory, I fail to see how 2hu and the eirin nurse thingy to be any different in that regard. (okay, the latter wasn't actually a puppet, but point still stands.) While there ARE some fanon-esque characters I don't mind, such as Noroiko and satsuki (even 1.8 canon has that in the form of lily black, and satsuki herself is boss-exclusive), it seems a little too "iffy" to me to include fanon puppets. One last minor nitpick on this, but six Yukkuris? even one is kind of excessive, but six is way too much.

As for the typings themselves, I can see 1.8 typings making more sense, honestly, since as it's been pointed out, 1.5 has a bunch of dark/psychic/normal types and very few of the other types. while 1.8 does suffer from this a bit (IE, still a lot of dark/reason-types, some types like earth and water are pretty rare), it's far more consistent outside of the ice and illusion typings. (and to be fair, what puppets can you see getting those two typings added on anyway, outside of 1.5 sakuya that is.) While there are some derps here and there (case in point: yuugenmagan), it's mostly logical. the only two 1.5 types I'm willing to defend is ice/steel sakuya (not on main sakuya, though, maybe on a tech form or something) and the fire/ice yumemi (way too cool to let go completely, even if I still wouldn't put this on main yumemi. fire/reason is also an interesting typing, however.)

Still, I do wonder how a hybrid of the two would play out, it'd probably end up as only bug, dragon, and rock being added from 1.5, and they'd mostly serve to make certain puppets stand out. (yamame/wriggle, meiling/iku, and suika/tenshi respectively) still, I find that idea at least somewhat interesting, especially since "adding" types is indeed possible in gen III now. http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=313872

As for the megas, I do kinda find last words to be SOMEWHAT more logical, mainly since instead of having a bunch of gems with names like "reimuite" or "ikuite" we could just have one "last word tag" that could act as the last word activation for any puppet that can use it. same mechanics as the mega evolutions, just a more sensible name. (yes, I know most people one here still cringe when they hear the phrase "last word insert-puppet-here" or "LWinsert-puppet-here") However, to be honest, I'm kinda against the whole concept for the same reason why I'm kinda dubious about the 1.5-1.8 type mesh thing above: it just ends up as playing favorites with some of the puppets, as the ones that DON'T get a last word/mega form struggle to stand out. Speaking of that, agastya brought this up in his nitpick corner for AW and it still applies here; some of the last word/mega forms are extremely random, like elly, kogasa, and the giant catfish.

And finally, abilities, a few nitpicks here: Any idea why female shingyoku gets intimidate, while male shingyoku gets the MUCH less useful for his HA? Kotohime with firm grip is pretty random. (own tempo should just be her only ability), same with kana and prankster. Any idea what "Miracle Star" is on sanae? I can kinda figure out some of the renamed abilities (IE, zombie = mummy), but I can't guess what that one's supposed to be. miracle skin? For things being completely broken, I'm shocked no one's pointed out multiscale lily white yet. (and on that note, multi-skin sounds REALLY odd) Drizzle suwako and drought utsuho just speak for themselves, really. (really, those two abilities would still be broken on things with 200-level BST's) Also, moody koishi and protean patchouli.

overall, as others have pointed out, moving into gen IV itself is a daunting thing when 1.8 kinda carved it's own, non-pokemon niche out for itself. (which the new TPDP is continuing to do, while romhacks themselves seem to be branching out more towards fangames over romhacks as well.) I understand this is just a silly brainstorming thing, though, so it's good to get these thoughts and complaints out every now and then. Still, I need to finish up my own hack, it's been sitting on the bench for way too long, and it's very close to completion.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 11:28:56 PM by Neotornado »

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Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 08:57:33 AM »
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One last minor nitpick on this, but six Yukkuris? even one is kind of excessive, but six is way too much.
Yeah, I think I went overboard with that...

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Any idea why female shingyoku gets intimidate, while male shingyoku gets the MUCH less useful for his HA? Kotohime with firm grip is pretty random.
The horns on female Shingyoku gives her an intimidating and fierce appearance, while the male version's appearance is like a meditating priest who doesn't get distracted by things so easily.

Kotohime canonically likes to collect interesting (in her opinion) things, so I thought of her being very protective about her things and not letting them get taken away.

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Any idea what "Miracle Star" is on sanae?
Did I not mention it in the file?  Anyway, it's Victini's Victory Star.

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fire/reason is also an interesting typing, however.)
Yumemi's Reason/Ice-type in 1.8, I believe.

Once again, keep in mind that this isn't being made at all and is simply something fun I came up with out of boredom a long time ago, but it wasn't until recently did I decided to share with everyone else to hear some opinions and comments.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 09:00:48 AM by Game2014 »

Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2014, 01:49:52 PM »
I think Seiga works as a Dark/Ground-type as well, considering her ability to "dig" holes, and in Touhou 13, you first encounter her underground.  Aichiya Sanae's 1.8 Enhanced has her as Earth/Heart-type.

Speaking of Ground-type, one thing I don't like about 1.8 is that Rock and Ground-type are merged together.  In Pokemon, it's a common practice for Ground-types to have Ground and Rock moves and Rock-types to have both those moves as well in order to give them perfect coverage and also an effective way for dealing with Flying-types, not to mention a quick way to fill up move slots.

1.8 merging those two ruined things for me because of this.  It's true that some Earth-types are able to learn elemental punches to deal with types they can't hit, but I still prefer that Rock and Ground be separate.  I imagine a Rock-type Rock Bullet to be a very devastating move in the metagame!

Also, Dark-type is probably better off being immune to Reason-type.  Not being immune to it sort of ruins the point of Dark-type's creation in the first place...

And for people saying that Bug-type is underused in 1.5, I can say the same for Illusion-type.

Offline joshcja

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 02:55:07 PM »
gonna step in here and explain a few things.

First in the dialect of the rural south allow me to explain the general feeling on Achiya Sanae hacks among the "Oh we get it 2hu is hard but why the fuck is there a level 100 LWZ boss at the first gym" folks. His hacks are either "Well bless his soul, it aint his fault momma drank durin the pragnency" or "Thems fightin words sonny >.>". Either way saying Achiya did it so its a good idea not exactly a strong first step.

Seiga was made dark faith in Purple because she's twisted evil taoist hermit. Typing tends to flow more into the belief area than the element area for primary forms. Plus seiga makes holes in...whatever she likes more or less, not just the earth (Hell she takes like..a week to make one hole in the ground in wind and horned hermit or some shit, not exactly her forte).

As a heads up, in care the new type chart, new/changed moves, new approach to evolutions, Replacement of electric rats with Loli's, not loli's and "Is that a rack or a person" confused you, this stopped being pokemon a long time ago. So earth is earth yo. Plus the whole, "who would even be rock" question I mean there's the tenshi's, but that's about it.

Blade Flash and Aqua jet respectively cover anything a rock type prio would.

Oh dear GOD dark does not need any buffs. Double immunity to 2 of the strongest offensive types in the game on the strongest offensive type in the game. Also Dark immuning psychic made no sense in the first place, even in pokelogic, it was just a dumb GF thing made because omgzorz psychic OP superovercompensategooooo. Additionaly 1.8 already has a somewhat strong type balance why tweak that just because "Well I like darks cause I'm dark inside n stuff and if I was a pokeman I'd be a houndoom, so lets give it an immunity"

Illusion is meant to be a primarily unstabed type because STAB Espeed is really really dumb. Really, really, dumb.

Gonna say you should try some 1.8 hacks made by somone who understands things like "good" difficulty (Looks scathingly at 1.5) or level curve (Looks mournfully at vanilla fire red) or how 2 region (Looks disparagingly at Java, Jhoto in FRE) before you go all gamefreak on gen 6.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 08:42:07 PM by joshcja »

Offline Game2014

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 07:33:14 AM »
Just because I played 1.8 hacks made by people who know what they're doing doesn't mean I'm not allowed to prefer GameFreak's official type chart.

Also, using the official type chart for 1.8's evolution system sounds like it may work to me.

And how does Dark being immune to Psychic make no sense?  Dark-types are about playing dirty and using deception, and such methods can allow one to play tricks and mess with other people's minds, which is what Psychic-type is all about, so the latter can't read their minds properly.  Dark-type is also based on the concept of evil (as evident of its Japanese name) to some extent, and if a person's mind is full of horrifying stuff, mind readers probably wouldn't want to read it, as they might psychologically harm themselves in doing so, thus explaining the immunity to Psychic-type moves.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 08:16:46 AM by Game2014 »

Offline chaosakita

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Re: Hypothetical 6th gen. TPP
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 09:55:45 PM »
Gonna say you should try some 1.8 hacks made by somone who understands things like "good" difficulty (Looks scathingly at 1.5) or level curve (Looks mournfully at vanilla fire red) or how 2 region (Looks disparagingly at Java, Jhoto in FRE) before you go all gamefreak on gen 6.

Gee calm down. 1.8 hacks are pretty good but there's no reason to put them on a pedestal or bash anyone who dares to enjoy something else.