Poll

Would you use an 'Extended' Shoddy Touhoumon 2 server?

Yes, as well as official
Yes, but not together with official
Yes, but only if it replaced official
No, because I prefer the official
No, for some other reason

Author Topic: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets  (Read 4687 times)

Offline EXSariel

  • AKA The Jamminstein (as Agastya puts it)
  • Administrator
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« on: September 30, 2013, 02:12:37 AM »
As you know, we, the server administrators, mainly me and Agastya, have prided ourselves on this server being 'pure,' that is to say, being as accurate and true to the original 1.812 game as possible. There are a few disparities here and there, such as the TD cast and Magic Stones, but we otherwise reject any notion of having 'custom' puppets available here and there. There has been quite a few talks amongst the administration and a few of the more influential members of the community about an additional server where such custom puppets and more could be designed and added to the current metagame, however many complications have prevented this from becoming a reality. This topic is being posted here to address one such complication; the community.

Our community is admittedly small and unimpressive, with quite a few people standing out but not enough bring forth anything crowd raising, nor is there much of a crowd to begin with. Touhou Puppet Play remains a popular alternative to the oft painful metagame of Pokemon, but the combination of Pokemon, Touhou and metagaming is a set of interests that very few people in this world actually have, much less those that speak native english. It is to this end that having another server might just kill what blooming community we have, because we might end up splitting it so thinly that neither can survive. There's also the matter of interest in said 'custom' environment; Who would play it? Who would built upon it? Would people abandon purity for it, or try to coexist with it?

One option is that we could combine the 'extended' metagame into our existing server and simply have a different ruleset for it, but this presents it's own complications, many of which are community based too. Would it overshadow the pure style of playing? Would it be overshadowed by the pure style of playing? There's a lot of things to consider that all ultimately boil down to 'how does the community feel about it?' This is what this topic is here to solve. Voting in the poll helps everyone get a good glance at what kind of consensus the community has reached but for me as a developer, it would be greatly appreciated if you posted your own comments, thoughts and feeling towards this kind of move as well.

If an 'extended' metagame becomes reality under any sort of circumstance, all of the puppets that are in the server but not currently in the Japanese Fire Red 1.812 ROM will be moved to it. This includes all of Agastya's Emerald version puppets, such as anyone from Ten Desires. If an 'extended' metagame becomes reality, there is also the possibility for many creative and interesting things to enter the meta, such as new moves, items or abilities on top of new puppets, but this is merely a possibility and not something definitively planned in the future if such a thing exists. Remember, for me and Agastya, purity and accuracy comes first. This is simply something that can be done if the community wishes for it, in whatever form it may come in.

That's about all there is to it. Have at it.
I'm not here.

Offline DoctorShanks

  • :coolguys:
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 195
  • .
    • View Profile
    • dumblr
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 06:44:03 AM »
I have a strong preference for official, but that's just me.

The TD cast and Kasen/Stones are a couple of additions that don't need to be here. I think that there should be a tier for strictly official which would be the default tier, and anything else would be in a separate tier so as to not mess with the purity of official. What's been added so far (TD/Stones/Kasen) has already has a significant impact on official; Yoshika puts many other Miasmas out of work, Futo and Mamizou are great leads who overshadow some puppets who would perform a similar role (Akyuu comes to mind, but most would prefer Mamizou simply because she's available), and Magic Stones seems like a more attractive Kikuri.

Having a bunch of puppets not in the official hacks within the teambuilder would confuse new players. I remember being confused when I saw the stat spreads for the TD cast when I first arrived.

But if you and the community want to add new stuff, is it possible to have two different clients work on the same server? Having two servers would divide the community in two, and any new players would have absolutely no chance adapting because an extended metagame doesn't exist outside of this potentially future server.
[8:30:13] DoctorSnacks: Are A/TSanae actually good or do people just use them because they're cute? Or Both?
[8:30:23] SupremeExplosion: Shoddy is a reskinned weenie hut juniors

Offline Agastya

  • Administrator
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
    • oh no its a website
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 12:27:05 PM »
i don't want to implement anything in this server that i can't implement in emerald, but thats mostly me being selfish

i am okay with splitting em stuff into its own tier list (it'd give me an excuse to have hyper beam gengetsu and physical tech iku) and even then people might just default that tier list

going any further than that makes me very uncomfortable because it's a very slippery slope and i am very prone to peer pressure (there may one day be actual uber tire if there actually is a demand for the x crew)

a second server would be suicidal for the community as well

(we could also just aaccept that what a /jp/ anon said was correct and it's more a server tailored towards em than jp fr)

But if you and the community want to add new stuff, is it possible to have two different clients work on the same server?
you can i believe but it wouldn't really be any more than a hassle since the clients would still be capable of challenging each other
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 12:31:49 PM by Agastya »
[6:30:51] DoctorShanks: Is Star Sapphire actually good or do people just use her because she's cute? Or both?
[6:30:55] Irisorchid: both
[6:30:57] &Agastya: both
[6:30:59] PrinnyAce: BOTH

Offline SG-Sanae

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 57
  • Sanae is a good girl
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 01:44:11 PM »
I'm in favor of giving extended a try without removing the pure server - the worst that could happen is nobody visiting the extended Metagame. I not only would want custom puppets, but some of the interesting things from later gens as well (such as Trick Room and weather rocks).

EDIT: Okay, there is still much to see in the current meta, but I like having room for more.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 02:17:22 PM by LightningLord2 »

Offline Agastya

  • Administrator
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
    • oh no its a website
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 02:18:14 PM »
I'm in favor of giving extended a try without removing the pure server - the worst that could happen is nobody visiting the extended Metagame. I not only would want custom puppets, but some of the interesting things from later gens as well (such as Trick Room and weather rocks), as we have depleted most strategic options in Touhoumon already.

yeah that's why everything has been used extensively and we have a totally established game where everything has been analyzed and has a niche set in stone and everything right
[6:30:51] DoctorShanks: Is Star Sapphire actually good or do people just use her because she's cute? Or both?
[6:30:55] Irisorchid: both
[6:30:57] &Agastya: both
[6:30:59] PrinnyAce: BOTH

Offline Garaliru

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 11
  • "Become a part of the swarm!"
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 06:27:44 PM »
Even though it would be kind off gimmicky it would still be very interesting.

Spoiler
Choice Scarf? Choice Specs? Life Orb? Focus Sash? ...Nah, let's not bring these unbelievably broken Gen 4 items to our lovely puppets.

Offline Rhetco

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 70
  • Waaaaaaahh
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 06:30:05 PM »
I like the idea of having "standard" follow JP official, while having stuff like the TD cast in their own tier. It would be good for experimenting, and if it doesn't work out, it'll be easier to go back to what we have now than if we made another server. It's certainly worth a try, in my opinion.
One day I'll be famous for all the amazing things I've achieved. But until then, I'm going to continue doing absolutely nothing.

Offline shai_LP

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 107
  • aaaaaaaaaaa
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 06:42:41 PM »
I'm ok with whatever we do.

Always bugged me that a few official puppets got shafted because of their unofficial cousins being stronger [Kikuri is the one that comes to mind the most] So an Official/Unofficial Split would be neat.

Turning it into an Em Dedicated Simulator allows Ags to become god but some Em Only things are really fun so I don't have a problem with it.

If we go the five miles and Import Mons [within reason or not] froms TPPE/Unofficial jp patches even better, although I doubt that will be happening. 4th Gen and above items I'm on the fence about but I'd deal.

I don't think a client split would be very wise, Server split would be better, but is shoving everything in one Server and just dividing by banlist [Standard/UU more like QQ/imajerk etc] out of the question?


Of course, I want the Unofficial Prismriver Combo and Unofficial Advents if possible but..


Yo this sounds like a good enough time to ask as any, where does the 3rd Gen Shedinja glitch (the very same that allows zfairy to learn killer moves like Eruption and Pain Split] fall into this? Would it's inclusion still be shelved? or would we take the "This is an Em Server" route and Ags would tirelessly work to patch it out of his rom?

I don't even know if that last one is even a thing without ASM but still.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 06:51:33 PM by shai_LP »

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 07:32:05 PM »
First of all I'm actually happy with the current meta of 1.8 as almost all "main" play styles are viable with the sole exception of full stall.

In terms of splitting content...why bother splitting/shrinking our already tiny meta ever further? Just keep the server and the emerald hack on the same page. Most of what you'd be adding will be buffs to "bad" puppets or autoubers anyways and I'm all for meta diversity.

@ Shai, nobody uses Kikuri because Kikuri is a badmon.

A few of the gen 4 items/abilities/moves would be fun but for the love of god no choice scarf/LO/Specs. E Belt and a few other items could be pretty nifty though and would fill niches nicely.

Offline DoctorShanks

  • :coolguys:
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 195
  • .
    • View Profile
    • dumblr
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 08:06:37 PM »
That Zombie Fairy thing happens in official, so it's just a feature that we don't have yet. And personally, I'm excited for it.
[8:30:13] DoctorSnacks: Are A/TSanae actually good or do people just use them because they're cute? Or Both?
[8:30:23] SupremeExplosion: Shoddy is a reskinned weenie hut juniors

Offline Doesnt

  • much sand. wow.
  • A Member group
  • ***************************************************************************************
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2013, 08:26:29 PM »
atm either people play fr 1.8, get on server, and get confused by new puppets

or they play em 1.8, get on server, and get confused by missing abilities/moves (hyper beam getsu, levitate magan, etc.)

(tppe people don't count because nasty plot smarisa and exploding yumekos are silly)

i personally say we just make it consistent with em as i don't want to remove futo/stones from all my teams that have them but either way's fine by me

also did magan and kikuri really see much use when yoshika and stones weren't common

their movepools are absolutely atrocious, even compared to things like dhina and alice

if anything got screwed it's dmokou, yoshi does nearly everything she does except resist fire and take reason
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya

Offline shai_LP

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 107
  • aaaaaaaaaaa
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2013, 08:44:47 PM »
@ Shai, nobody uses Kikuri because Kikuri is a badmon.

She's the first thing that came to mind, not a shining example!

doesnt probably hit on the dot with dmokou/yoshika


> exploding yumekos

is this really a thing? is it tutor or egg moves?

Offline Doesnt

  • much sand. wow.
  • A Member group
  • ***************************************************************************************
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 08:57:21 PM »
> exploding yumekos

is this really a thing? is it tutor or egg moves?

from what i've heard there's an explosion tutor and damn near everything can learn it

almost makes me want to play tppe just to break the game's face in
i accidentally deleted your avatar so have 90 stars instead ~agastya

Offline shai_LP

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 107
  • aaaaaaaaaaa
    • View Profile
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2013, 09:04:51 PM »
in Bizzaro shoddy, TPPE server would just be full of silly wouldn't it

Doesnt you haven't lived until you done a Fully Random Run of TPPE

managed to get to the postgame before dying but this is neither here or there.

Just a reminder to peeps though, the usable version of the E4-only mons always usually had a BST/General Stat Decrease [For example, Dark Alice used to have 120 base speed, and I think she might still have 120 base speed for the E4's pet version in official].

So JK-Sanae isn't quite Kyogre++ as her E4 pet stats would suggest, Same to MPPSuika's big stats taking a hit and EXMarisa having the defenses of paper.

I don't know why I'm trying so hard what will probably happen is that we stick to em and that will be the end of it


Offline Agastya

  • Administrator
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
    • oh no its a website
Re: Server purity and the potential for custom puppets
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2013, 10:09:48 PM »
> exploding yumekos

is this really a thing? is it tutor or egg moves?

from what i've heard there's an explosion tutor and damn near everything can learn it

almost makes me want to play tppe just to break the game's face in

its not until sevii islands first trip
you cant really break much about tppe until the johto postgame, its the main thing stopping me from wanting to try it

theres also a spikes tutor that satori forms can learn and dsatori cant
but it doesnt matter because you slide to regular satori then back to defense after you learn a move
[6:30:51] DoctorShanks: Is Star Sapphire actually good or do people just use her because she's cute? Or both?
[6:30:55] Irisorchid: both
[6:30:57] &Agastya: both
[6:30:59] PrinnyAce: BOTH