Author Topic: [WIP]Nue  (Read 5773 times)

Offline Voltex

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
[WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 01:02:04 AM »
WIP: List of Counters and support Puppets incomplete, other sets need testing.

Nue

Type: Miasma/Flying
Resistances: Dream, Miasma, Faith, Heart, Beast, Nature(x2)
Immunities: Earth
Weaknesses: Reason, Steel, Wind, Ice

Base Stats:
HP: 90
Atk: 95
Def: 80
Spd: 130
Sp.Atk: 75
Sp.Def: 80

Overview:
Nue, the Mysterious Youkai. When I saw her stats, my first thought was "wow, the only thing she needs is Swords Dance" and sure enough, she is able to learn this move, allowing her to become a fierce attacker.
Then, the combination of Miasma/Flying is really nice, granting Nue immunity to Poison status and Earth attacks, resistance to 5 types and a x4 resistance to Nature-type, which allows her to switch safely into Toxic and predicted Earth or Nature attacks.
And just in case that wasn't enough, Nue has a respectable amount of support moves at her disposal, namely Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Recover and Toxic, which combined with her great base Speed allow her to work effectively against leads and annoying walls.

However, after all this, Nue still has her flaws. Although Flying nullifies Miasma's weakness Earth, she still has several weaknesses from her Flying-type. Then, the fact that Flying-type is weak to not only 1, but 2 priority moves (Blade Flash and Ice Shard) doesn't help, as those moves turn Nue's high Speed irrelevant. Finally, Nue is way too vulnerable to Steel-types, who not only resist her both STABs, but also threat her with STAB super-effective Steel attacks AND Nue cannot learn any move effective against them.

Nue can be highly aggressive Puppet, but at the same time she has several tricks under her hand, and if the opponent doesn't have any Steel type or priority users (or you deal with them in advance), she might be able to finish entire Teams by herself.
The closest Pokemon version of Nue is Crobat, who apparently is not doing that bad at the OU Metagame, and with a wider support movepool and slightly better stats, we should expect even more from Nue.


Abilities:
Mysterious: Although it fits Nue as the Mysterious Youkai, you should only give her this ability if you want a for-fun set, because it will mess your STABs up and your opponent can take advantage of it by using its own coverage moves.
Pressure: Not the best ability around, but definitely better than the other option, and it is always good to deplete those stalling or powerful 5-PP moves faster.

-----
Suggested by Josh:

Stallbreaker
Nue @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 216 Spd/40 Hp/252 Atk
Nature: Jolly (+Spd-Spatk)
-Brave Bird/Poison Jab
-Recover
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp

"The given EV's outspeed base 100 fully invested allowing Nue to outpace even the fastest walls in the game and the combination of taunt, recover, and WoW allows her to break them down pressure is just icing on the cake and can allow Nue to PP stall a few otherwise annoying moves. Max attack is just there to fully abuse brave bird because offensive D kayuga is a thing, but you can run a 16 spd/240 Hp/252 Def/Spdef spread instead to take hits better.

Countered by: Magic stones/H Eirin/Chiyuri"

Anti-lead
Nue @ Airline Uniform/Wedding Dress
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 252 Spd/252 Atk/4 Hp
Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-SpAtk)
-Brave Bird
-Taunt
-Wilo Wisp
-SelfDestruct

"Taunt spiker and then either cripple it, Kill it with brave bird, or wtfboom to take it out. Or just wtfboom to grab the games momentum instantly and attempt to force a sweep with another mon."
-----

U.F.D. - Undefined Fantastic Dance (Swords Dance)
Nue @ Lum Berry/Leftovers/Airline Uniform/Nurse Uniform
Nature: Adamant (+Atk; -Sp.Atk)/ Jolly (+Spd; -Sp.Atk)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Brave Bird
-Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
-Selfdestruct/Heart Break/Steel Wing

Set up Swords Dance and then sweep. Brave Bird and Poison Jab are your STAB moves and after Nue is worn down by the recoil of the former move, you can finish with a boom!
If you are a fan of Fire Blast and similar moves, then Gunk Shot is the move for you, but if you prefer accuracy over power, you can stick with Poison Jab and let Brave Bird inflict the heavy damage.
If you don't like the idea of Self-destructing Nue, then you can go for Heart Break to hit hard any Reason-type that might threat Nue, or Steel Wing to take down threatening Ice-types and for coverage, but it will be resisted by the dreaded Steels.
Lum Berry is the first item of choice, while Leftovers increases durability and mitigates the recoil from Brave Bird, but you can hold Airline Uniform to dish even deadlier Brave Birds out, or Nurse Uniform if you feel that Poison Jab needs a boost or want to shoot devastating Gunk Shots.

Because of the popularity of Steel-types, this moveset is the least recommended, but it is still an option for taking down non-Steels.


Other options:
Toxic/Taunt/Will-o-Wisp/Confuse Ray: You can take advantage of Nue's high Speed to cause status on the opposing Puppet or lock its support moves before they get the chance of doing anything.
Recover: With average 90/80/80 defenses, 6 resistances and 1 immunity, Recover is a feasible move for Nue, allowing her to last longer, relief recoil damage and, given the opportunity, set Swords Dance a second and even a third time. This move can be further supported with Leftovers and an investment on HP.
Quick Attack: If you hate the fact that even with full investment on Speed Nue priority moves can still outspeed her, you can resort to this move. However, by using this would be dropping either the powerful Brave Bird, or limiting Nue's already small coverage even more.
Cross Poison: If you want to bet on the RNG you can use this instead of Poison Jab. It has 15 less Base Power after STAB, but landing a critical hit can be a game-changer.
Ingrain: This move can allow Nue to Sword Dance without fear of losing the boosts through Phazing while relieving recoil damage.

Disable: "After something dies to Drawn Line/Braver, Mana Burst/Luster Purge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam you can lock out their Nue-killing move and SD Up". - shai_LP

[Despite her average defenses, the combination of Leftovers, defensive EVs and Toxic, Recover, Taunt, Ingrain and/or Detect might allow Nue to perform as a Toxic Staller by taking advantage of her base Speed for attacking first, but such moveset has yet to be tested].

Support:
Nue will appreciate the company of any Puppets that can deal with those pesky Steels that wall can her and those Mana Burst users that seem to be way too common.
On the other hand, you can use Puppets weak to Earth and Nature to attract opposing Puppets with those moves, only to switch Nue in for her to take the now ineffective attacks, and take the opportunity to set up.
As for specific Puppets who can work well along Nue, right now I can only think on Technical Toyohime, who can hit Steel and Reason-types hard with STAB Earth Power and Shadow Ball respectively, while encouraging your opponent to bring out his/her Puppets with Nature attacks.

Counters:
As stated before, Steel-type resists both Nue's STABs so most Puppets with that typing can take advantage of it, especially the defensive ones who might be able to survive a Selfdestruct, which is the next move they should expect from Nue, besides of a switch out.
Then, even with her impressive Speed, Nue is still vulnerable Blade Flash and Ice Shard, so pretty much any Puppet with an outstanding Atk/Sp.Atk and access to those moves should scare her off, unless she is running Quick Attack and the opposing Puppet it at risk of being heavily damaged by the move.
Specifically, Youki and Youmu forms are excellent Nue counters, since they have STAB Blade Flash, resistance to Nue's STABs, and immunity to both Selfdestruct and Heart Break; Youmu and Youki stand out since the former has 120 base Attack to deal powerful Blade Flashes, and the latter has a higher base Speed than Nue and even higher base Attack than Youmu, which means that with a proper investment on Speed he should be able to outspeed Nue and hit with an stronger Battle Chant or Drawn Line.
Advent Cirno and Advent Letty are another remarkable counters, who are Steel type, have access to Ice Shard, and have a nice 125 and 115 base Atk respectively to support the move.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 09:33:08 PM by Voltex »

Offline shai_LP

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 107
  • aaaaaaaaaaa
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 01:39:54 AM »
Disable is pretty feasible on Nue off that beastly 130 Speed

Due to this + her resistance list, she probably appreciates Encore users too.

After something dies to Drawn Line/Braver, Mana Burst/Luster Purge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam you can lock out their Nue-killing move and SD Up

Also her bulk is good enough to survive priority at full health [Flying typing means you don't fear spikes damage either]
its Pretty similar to Dark Alice Bulk.

252+ Atk Choice Band Youki Blade Flash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 180-212 (55.9 - 65.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band AdCirno Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 254-300 (78.88 - 93.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band AdLetty Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 236-282 (73.29 - 87.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Momiji Blade Flash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 260-308 (80.74 - 95.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Yorihime Blade Flash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 236-282 (73.29 - 87.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Of course, she can't touch any of these guys anyways with her STAB combination but its worth a mention [then again it'll be rare that she'll be sitting at full health with brave bird... no soar to fall back on either]

Does anything even run Gale? [Wiki says Gale is Flying type, is this a typo?]

She sits on a pretty comfortable speed tier though, After a Swords Dance, She'll only need to be switched out immediately vs Youki and Advent Marisa [and Mimi-chan if she's not sitting at full-health which is likely if she's running Brave Bird, Gothic Wearing Mimi will still kill 1/4 of the time and Nue will still be betting on Mimi not exploding though]

She is gambling on Speed tie vs Speed Marisa, Advent Reisen and Speed Yorihime [The last of which you do not want to stay in on AT ALL Speed form or not, both can take a +2 Brave Bird and kill you no problem]


« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 01:46:27 AM by shai_LP »

Offline Voltex

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 01:58:07 AM »
My mistake: Gale is Flying-Type. I mixed it up with Twister and thought it was Wind-Type. So I guess that's make 2 priority moves Nue is weak against.

I will fix the original post, and include Disable in "Other Options" as well.

Offline shai_LP

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 107
  • aaaaaaaaaaa
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 02:23:08 AM »
I'm going to just say the ability to come on DKaguya/Non-Helper Star Sapphires and either kill them or potentially get a free SD [You can't expect switch every-time, because they can carry Mana Burst] is extremely awesome too.

along with the after-mentioned Yorihime which is a stop to Nue [like Youki, cept can die from SelfDestruct], Chiyuri is a check to Nue, Being able to Survive +1 Brave Birds/Poison Jabs/Gunk Shots and Paralyze or Outright Kill with Luster Purge [Mana Burst will have a chance to OHKO at full SpA investment, but Luster Purge will have a 1/3 chance to OHKO even with no SpA investment (100% OHKO at 116 EVs)]

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 04:50:17 AM »
Just because Nue CAN run a SD set does not make her good at it. In fact she's pretty bad at it cause 95 base attack and walled by steel. Plus she can give Ad Reisen a free sub and thats NOT a good thing. Oh, and if your not running an airline uniform... Mimi chan can swap in on SD Nue.

As a better alternative I give you...

Stallbreaker
Nue @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 216 Spd/252 Hp/40 Atk
Nature: Jolly (+Spd-Spatk)
-Brave Bird/Poison Jab
-Recover
-Taunt
-Wilo-Wisp

The given EV's outspeed up to base 125 fully invested allowing Nue to outpace even the fastest walls or annoyers in the game and the combination of taunt, recover, and WoW allows her to break them down pressure is just icing on the cake and can allow Nue to PP stall a few otherwise annoying moves. Brave bird is because offensive D kayuga is a thing. You can also run a 16 spd/240 Hp/252 Def/Spdef spread instead to take hits better while still outpacing base 100's.

Countered by: Magic stones/ASuwako/Shingyoku-M/Goliath Doll/Tensoku

She can also run a nifty antilead set

TL: DR: Crobat is fucking awesome, but is not a sweeper.

@ shai: ANue can sub disable but she's strictly worse at it than Seiga unless your just really into PP stalling.

Updated
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 01:25:32 AM by joshcja »

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 06:02:37 AM »
Yeah man, Mimi-chan is pretty much a hard counter to any Nue variant. I'd probably add her to the counters list if I were you.







(THEORYMON WARNING)

What I'm going to say here is Theorymon already, but a more defensive Nue variant running Recover, Taunt and defensive EVs could probably run Mysterious to decent effect. Who says changing your type around is necessarily bad? Couldn't you use it to your advantage?

If you can manipulate your typing by switching into predicted moves (and being able to heal it off later if the need arises), then you'll force the opponent into using a specific move, which is likely a weaker move than its STABs. Once you've got that down, you have a potential free switch-in to do. In other words, she'd work as a pivot.

For her other moves, she could probably run Brave Bird (being able to heal off the recoil damage) and a status move, likely Wisp to better function as a pivot and being able to pick up some extra damage while at it.

Besides, potentially losing STAB on Brave Bird wouldn't be as much of a problem as it looks, since the very nature of the set demands a lot of switching either way; besides, even uninvested, Nue should retain respectable enough speed for it to be able to hit first with Brave Bird most of the time.

Of course, this is completely untested, but it might just happen to work?... I'm curious, so I'll test it myself later, but either way, it's an interesting concept. Just pointing out that Mysterious isn't necessarily a bad ability.



Maybe if you try making it work like vanilla defensive Aya? I run 252 def/168 hp/88 spd and a +def nature on mine with Roost, Taunt, Spikes and Soar as a lead, and it does work wonders (that one was tested plenty, don't worry). Aya's base defensive stats aren't too different, either: they're at a merely respectable 85/90/90.







Okay, time to discuss with Josh again for old times' sake.

Quote from: Josh
Just because Nue CAN run a SD set does not make her good at it. In fact she's pretty bad at it cause 95 base attack
95 attack isn't low at all. It's not the highest ever, but you're making it sound as if anything with only average base Atk can't hurt, therefore not being a good SD user. In fact, it's the other way around: the most important stat for SD is Spd, not Atk, and Nue is already great at that with her huge 130 base. However...
Quote from: Josh
and walled by steel.
Now that's an actual problem.

Even then, most Steel-types won't appreciate being hit by +2 Heart Break (or Selfdestruct)... so if she can 2HKO with Heart Break, the Steel type could effectively be eliminated, unless it happens to be faster than her - Youki and Mimi-chan could do the work, for example - or if it's strong enough to OHKO her, which shouldn't happen that often considering she has respectable bulk.

(Oh, and Mimi-chan probably can't OHKO her with anything but Explosion, though I didn't bother running the calcs because I'm lazy no time)



Quote from: Josh
Plus she can give Ad Reisen a free sub and thats NOT a good thing.
Please elaborate. Can't Nue just Brave Bird, effectively breaking the sub on the same turn it's set up?
Quote from: Josh
allowing Nue to outpace even the fastest walls in the game
Reflect Gengetsu. Your argument is invalid. (what, am I seriously mentioning Gengetsu?)
And eh, Kotohime can set up Reflect before Taunt with Nue's given EVs, but from there she'd probably be forced to switch. The switch-in could very well give you a hard time if it's behind the proper screen, though.
Quote from: Josh
Crobat is fucking awesome, but is not a sweeper.
And Nue isn't Crobat, and this is Touhoumon, not Pokemon :<
(Does crobat even get SD to begin with, I'm pretty sure it didn't in gen IV)



Quote from: Josh
Please test sets before posting, SD Nue is pretty obviously terrible even after one use on shoddy.
Oh, sure, test a set once, have it not work because a steel walled it while you weren't running Heart Break, then call it bad, that'll work.

Besides, I'm pretty sure he DID test it. Please don't assume he's called Naļ or something. If you actually look closely, the distinction between tested and untested options in his post is visible.



EDIT: this thing.
Quote from: Josh
@ shai: ANue can sub disable but she's strictly worse at it than Seiga unless your just really into PP stalling.
To this, I repeat what Shai himself said:
Quote from: Shai
After something dies to Drawn Line/Braver, Mana Burst/Luster Purge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam you can lock out their Nue-killing move and SD Up
That's a pretty damn neat way of setting SD up.
Yes, some Steels will force you to switch out if you aren't running Heart Break, but you can still hurt things a bit before switching out, so isn't it still neat?

I'm not sure whether the Disable + SD set is tested, though, but it's definitely worth a mention.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:20:29 AM by Naļ »

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 06:25:00 AM »
Yeah man, Mimi-chan is pretty much a hard counter to any Nue variant. I'd probably add her to the counters list if I were you.



Okay, time to discuss with Josh again for old times' sake.

95 attack isn't low at all. It's not the highest ever, but you're making it sound as if anything with only average base Atk can't hurt, therefore not being a good SD user. In fact, it's the other way around: the most important stat for SD is Spd, not Atk, and Nue is already great at that with her huge 130 base. However...
Quote from: Josh
and walled by steel.
Now that's an actual problem.

Walls in this game have to deal with SD Youki dude, 95 is piss poor.

Even then, most Steel-types won't appreciate being hit by +2 Heart Break (or Selfdestruct)... so if she can 2HKO with Heart Break, the Steel type could effectively be eliminated, unless it happens to be faster than her - Youki and Mimi-chan could do the work, for example - or if it's strong enough to OHKO her, which shouldn't happen that often considering she has respectable bulk.

You left out Yumeko, Rika, Youmu, and Attack Suwako.

(Oh, and Mimi-chan probably can't OHKO her with anything but Explosion, though I didn't bother running the calcs because I'm lazy no time)

252 Atk Special Bloomers Mimi-chan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 354-417 (109.93 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Please elaborate. Can't Nue just Brave Bird, effectively breaking the sub on the same turn it's set up?

Best case scenario is that Nue stays in and dies. Thats a bad best case scenario

Reflect Gengetsu. Your argument is invalid. (what, am I seriously mentioning Gengetsu?)
And eh, Kotohime can set up Reflect before Taunt with Nue's given EVs, but from there she'd probably be forced to switch. The switch-in could very well give you a hard time if it's behind the proper screen, though.

That would fall under the role of antilead more than stallbreaker

And Nue isn't Crobat, and this is Touhoumon, not Pokemon :<
(Does crobat even get SD to begin with, I'm pretty sure it didn't in gen IV)

bat learns nasty plot and has a huge special movepool (nobody uses it though cause 90ish base is terrible even after a boost) but tbh Nue is functionally crobat with slightly better bulk and no U turn

Oh, sure, test a set once, have it not work because a steel walled it while you weren't running Heart Break, then call it bad, that'll work.

I actually ran SD Nue a lot just because she was in standard suspects when I first joined lol, she never really did much.

Besides, I'm pretty sure he DID test it. Please don't assume he's called Naļ or something. If you actually look closely, the distinction between tested and untested options in his post is visible.

Long and well written OP is long and well written, but like the yukari post it seems to be heavily based on in game play rather than competitive play, SD Nue is pretty sweet in game and can do a lot of work, its just terrible in competitive play.

Red replies are red

Off the top of my head...

A Reimu
T Aya
Wriggle
Hatate

All out preform SD Nue as flying sweepers.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:39:12 AM by joshcja »

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 07:48:07 AM »
Quote from: Josh
Walls in this game have to deal with SD Youki dude, 95 is piss poor.
That's if you only consider atk/spd stats. Remember that Youki has about as much bulk as Mimi-chan... well no, it's not that bad, but it'll die pretty quickly at any rate. Anything that runs at least a half-decent attack stat will kill it, and it doesn't even need to be a wall, in fact: a bulky attacker will suffice if it's bulky enough, really... and yet, that doesn't hold true for Nue.
Quote from: Josh
You left out Yumeko, Rika, Youmu, and Attack Suwako.
I wasn't really making a hard counter list, I was giving examples... there's a reason I said "for example" in the first place :<

But yeah, I get your point, yes, Steels ARE a problem, lol. There's no denying that, especially since she has no good coverage move for them.
Quote from: Josh
252 Atk Special Bloomers Mimi-chan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nue: 354-417 (109.93 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Oh, okay. If the numbers are that high, then even Gothic Lolita Mimi-chan probably has a good chance of an OHKO after some Brave Bird recoil.







Quote from: Josh
Best case scenario is that Nue stays in and dies. Thats a bad best case scenario
Oh, lol

Eh, if you know AdReisen's gonna sub, you could just Brave Bird and break her sub anyway - from there she'll probably feel the need to Mana Burst you, which is when you immediately switch out, but that does require a lot of prediction.
Quote from: Josh
That would fall under the role of antilead more than stallbreaker
That's true for Kotohime, but Gengetsu doesn't really like running the lead position.
Still, would you mind making a quick antilead set for reference?



Quote from: Josh
bat learns nasty plot and has a huge special movepool (nobody uses it though cause 90ish base is terrible even after a boost) but tbh Nue is functionally crobat with slightly better bulk and no U turn
Oh, okay.
Well, if you ask me, Nasty Plot Crobat isn't a thing because it's got no good means to setup in the first place, what with those defenses, but eh, who am I to talk about Pokemon.

Nue's bulk isn't just "slightly better", that level of bulk is bulky bird bulk, you know? That's enough to tank/stall already with investment, as long as it's not things like, uh, APatchy or 4x supereffective hits.







Quote from: Josh
I actually ran SD Nue a lot just because she was in standard suspects when I first joined lol, she never really did much.
Long and well written OP is long and well written, but like the yukari post it seems to be heavily based on in game play rather than competitive play, SD Nue is pretty sweet in game and can do a lot of work, its just terrible in competitive play.
Then I could argue that it was when you first joined so you didn't know that much about Touhoumon and blahblahblah and more words, but eh, that'd just be nitpicking so I'll stop already.

Also,
Quote from: Josh
Off the top of my head...

A Reimu
T Aya
Wriggle
Hatate

All out preform SD Nue as flying sweepers.
AReimu's and TAya's better performance is simply because they don't depend on setups, so yeah, besides Flying/Dream being pseudo boltbeam :< Wriggle has enough Spd for Tailwinding well, and Hatate has, uh, good coverage?

However, do keep in mind that a neutral hit from fully invested +2 Nue should hurt more than one from AReimu and TAya, as well as more than a +1 Wriggle neutral hit; also, fully invested Nue is faster than both AReimu and Hatate by quite a lot, so it's not all black and white.

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 08:45:51 AM »
A Reimu tailwinds

Adamant 120 base at +1 = 558 Atk
Jolly 95 base at +2 = 578

20 more base damage and piss coverage vs thing with near perfect coverage that instantly go to a "Cant touch dis" speed tier.

Also the natural bulk of the things I listed is comparable to Nue's if not better.

Antilead Nue would look kinda like this

Nue @ Airline Uniform/Wedding Dress
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 252 Spd/252 Atk/4 Hp
Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-SpAtk)
-Brave Bird
-Taunt
-Wilo Wisp
-SelfDestruct

Taunt spiker and then either cripple it, Kill it with brave bird, or wtfboom to take that POS out. Or just wtfboom to grab the games momentum instantly and attempt to force a sweep with another mon.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 08:54:10 AM by joshcja »

Offline DoctorShanks

  • :coolguys:
  • A Member group
  • *****
  • Posts: 188
  • .
    • View Profile
    • dumblr
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 12:07:05 PM »
As much as I loved the set in the OP, I had eventually stopped using it sometime a few months back due to the fact that Nue is literally a Youmu/Youki magnet.

I have never tried Attack Reimu, but she does seem to out-perform Nue in the set-up and move-pool department. Attack Reimu is especially tough to Counter and Revenge Kill.

I once tried a lead Choice Ribbon set with Nue, but she always always always drew in my opponent's Steel-types. Magnet Pull Nue from the Dream World, anyone?

I feel that Nue needs to make good use of her Support options, as well as Self-destruct, to give her an edge. Josh's Anti-lead Nue looks like it could work very well. Then again, with every team rolling at least one Steel-type these days...

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 04:22:11 PM »
As much as I loved the set in the OP, I had eventually stopped using it sometime a few months back due to the fact that Nue is literally a Youmu/Youki magnet.

I have never tried Attack Reimu, but she does seem to out-perform Nue in the set-up and move-pool department. Attack Reimu is especially tough to Counter and Revenge Kill.

I once tried a lead Choice Ribbon set with Nue, but she always always always drew in my opponent's Steel-types. Magnet Pull Nue from the Dream World, anyone?

I feel that Nue needs to make good use of her Support options, as well as Self-destruct, to give her an edge. Josh's Anti-lead Nue looks like it could work very well. Then again, with every team rolling at least one Steel-type these days...

Is why I really prefer the stallbreaker set I posted earlier. Not many steels like to eat a wilo-wisp swapping in and Status + taunt + bulk + pressure + speed is pretty ideal for breaking down dedicated walls.

<- Not trying to blatantly force metagame diversity at all.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:19:50 PM by joshcja »

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 06:11:45 PM »
@Josh: ...I didn't know AReimu could Tailwind, nevermind all that then :<
And yeah, the antilead looks like it'd work well.



@Shanks: I don't think Steels are too big of a problem as long as you run *any* coverage move - sure, you can't stay in against them, but at least you aren't completely helpless. Youki/Youmu do completely stop her, though. Nue really really wants the other forms' Ghost coverage. They can both run Ghost/Steel, too, which... isn't it nearly perfect coverage? What resists both Ghost and Steel?

Still, if she does have that capability of drawing Steel-types towards her, that's not necessarily bad, you know? Just like running Mysterious. If you've seen their Steel and know it's coming, then that's good enough for luring, and Nue'll have done a good job~.



But yeah, Nue is probably not the best SD user ever, after all. The only SD set I can see consistently differentiating itself from things like Tailwind AReimu is the Disable + SD one, and even then, it does rely a lot on prediction and surprise.

Offline Voltex

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 06:34:32 PM »
I agree with everyone: Nue should focus more on her support moves rather than only try to compete against other set-up Puppets that might outclass her (like the mentioned A Reimu). I started with SD set in the OP because it was the only build I have tested (and I myself run a variant with Recover and 252 HP EVs, not strictly SD), but I knew she had way more options available (hence the WIP tag stating that other sets still need test).

For instance, the Stallbreaker and Antilead sets Josh mentions definitely look more effective, more fun than "SD then sweep" and actually take advantage of Nue's support moves. The Antilead set does remind me of Azelf, who if I am not mistaken, is (or was) a popular lead that runs Explosion.

Thanks for your comments, and I will update the OP.

Offline joshcja

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 281
  • Burn Yo Bacon
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 06:37:08 PM »
I agree with everyone: Nue should focus more on her support moves rather than only try to compete against other set-up Puppets that might outclass her (like the mentioned A Reimu). I started with SD set in the OP because it was the only build I have tested (and I myself run a variant with Recover and 252 HP EVs, not strictly SD), but I knew she had way more options available (hence the WIP tag stating that other sets still need test).

For instance, the Stallbreaker and Antilead sets Josh mentions definitely look more effective, more fun than "SD then sweep" and actually take advantage of Nue's support moves. The Antilead set does remind me of Azelf, who if I am not mistaken, is (or was) a popular lead that runs Explosion.

Thanks for your comments, and I will update the OP.

Glad you liked em and thanks for updating.

Offline Naļ

  • A Member group
  • Posts: 140
  • In training
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP]Nue
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 06:42:33 PM »
@Volt, if you feel like testing it and making it a dedicated set, then Shai's idea of Disable + SD is probably good, too, as well as the most viable SD set I've seen so far (and one that'd actually be worth running over other options). Maybe if you combine if with Subs?... dunno.

Oh, and @Shai:
Quote from: Shai
Does anything even run Gale?
Tenma