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Messages - Naļ

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31
ROM Hacks + General Discussion / Re: THPP Wiki Situation
« on: August 22, 2013, 06:08:42 AM »
Actually, Rhet already completed the puppet page project while I wasn't looking, LOL.
(rhet y u so efficient, wat r u doin, stahp)

Either way, I'll just re-change the Touhoudex for now, that should at least secure some extra space in case of an emergency.

32
Movesets / Re: [WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 06:02:37 AM »
Yeah man, Mimi-chan is pretty much a hard counter to any Nue variant. I'd probably add her to the counters list if I were you.







(THEORYMON WARNING)

What I'm going to say here is Theorymon already, but a more defensive Nue variant running Recover, Taunt and defensive EVs could probably run Mysterious to decent effect. Who says changing your type around is necessarily bad? Couldn't you use it to your advantage?

If you can manipulate your typing by switching into predicted moves (and being able to heal it off later if the need arises), then you'll force the opponent into using a specific move, which is likely a weaker move than its STABs. Once you've got that down, you have a potential free switch-in to do. In other words, she'd work as a pivot.

For her other moves, she could probably run Brave Bird (being able to heal off the recoil damage) and a status move, likely Wisp to better function as a pivot and being able to pick up some extra damage while at it.

Besides, potentially losing STAB on Brave Bird wouldn't be as much of a problem as it looks, since the very nature of the set demands a lot of switching either way; besides, even uninvested, Nue should retain respectable enough speed for it to be able to hit first with Brave Bird most of the time.

Of course, this is completely untested, but it might just happen to work?... I'm curious, so I'll test it myself later, but either way, it's an interesting concept. Just pointing out that Mysterious isn't necessarily a bad ability.



Maybe if you try making it work like vanilla defensive Aya? I run 252 def/168 hp/88 spd and a +def nature on mine with Roost, Taunt, Spikes and Soar as a lead, and it does work wonders (that one was tested plenty, don't worry). Aya's base defensive stats aren't too different, either: they're at a merely respectable 85/90/90.







Okay, time to discuss with Josh again for old times' sake.

Quote from: Josh
Just because Nue CAN run a SD set does not make her good at it. In fact she's pretty bad at it cause 95 base attack
95 attack isn't low at all. It's not the highest ever, but you're making it sound as if anything with only average base Atk can't hurt, therefore not being a good SD user. In fact, it's the other way around: the most important stat for SD is Spd, not Atk, and Nue is already great at that with her huge 130 base. However...
Quote from: Josh
and walled by steel.
Now that's an actual problem.

Even then, most Steel-types won't appreciate being hit by +2 Heart Break (or Selfdestruct)... so if she can 2HKO with Heart Break, the Steel type could effectively be eliminated, unless it happens to be faster than her - Youki and Mimi-chan could do the work, for example - or if it's strong enough to OHKO her, which shouldn't happen that often considering she has respectable bulk.

(Oh, and Mimi-chan probably can't OHKO her with anything but Explosion, though I didn't bother running the calcs because I'm lazy no time)



Quote from: Josh
Plus she can give Ad Reisen a free sub and thats NOT a good thing.
Please elaborate. Can't Nue just Brave Bird, effectively breaking the sub on the same turn it's set up?
Quote from: Josh
allowing Nue to outpace even the fastest walls in the game
Reflect Gengetsu. Your argument is invalid. (what, am I seriously mentioning Gengetsu?)
And eh, Kotohime can set up Reflect before Taunt with Nue's given EVs, but from there she'd probably be forced to switch. The switch-in could very well give you a hard time if it's behind the proper screen, though.
Quote from: Josh
Crobat is fucking awesome, but is not a sweeper.
And Nue isn't Crobat, and this is Touhoumon, not Pokemon :<
(Does crobat even get SD to begin with, I'm pretty sure it didn't in gen IV)



Quote from: Josh
Please test sets before posting, SD Nue is pretty obviously terrible even after one use on shoddy.
Oh, sure, test a set once, have it not work because a steel walled it while you weren't running Heart Break, then call it bad, that'll work.

Besides, I'm pretty sure he DID test it. Please don't assume he's called Naļ or something. If you actually look closely, the distinction between tested and untested options in his post is visible.



EDIT: this thing.
Quote from: Josh
@ shai: ANue can sub disable but she's strictly worse at it than Seiga unless your just really into PP stalling.
To this, I repeat what Shai himself said:
Quote from: Shai
After something dies to Drawn Line/Braver, Mana Burst/Luster Purge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam you can lock out their Nue-killing move and SD Up
That's a pretty damn neat way of setting SD up.
Yes, some Steels will force you to switch out if you aren't running Heart Break, but you can still hurt things a bit before switching out, so isn't it still neat?

I'm not sure whether the Disable + SD set is tested, though, but it's definitely worth a mention.

33
Movesets / Re: Shingyoku-F
« on: August 22, 2013, 04:16:55 AM »
Quote from: Rhet
Keeping Shingyoku healthy is one of the biggest issues with her. Keeping her at high HP is important, but she's so slow that she's bound to take lots of hits.
Wish support would probably work wonderfully for her, especially if in tandem with Pain Split.

34
Movesets / Re: [WIP]Helper Erin
« on: August 21, 2013, 11:32:26 PM »
This has always bugged me, but I didn't mention anything because it might have been intentional... either way I'm just going to say it.
You are aware her name is spelled Eirin, right?...

I'm not sure whether I'm just missing out on a joke on anything, but oh well.



I don't think you're being asked to make a list of every strong special attacker in the game, really. Rather, mentioning a few specific threats against which HEirin can't stay in no matter what - in other words, hard counters, like DAlice - is probably what was meant. A lot of strong special attackers can threaten her, but not many are plain hard counters.

Either way, the counters section could probably use a little more work on it.



Also,
Quote from: Josh
With a swimsuit (inb4fanart)
Here you go.

35
Off-topic / Re: Forum Topic II
« on: August 21, 2013, 08:54:13 PM »
Naļ: I see, so I'm a charismatic ass instead of just being a plain ass? That's informative
Shai: ...uh, no... it's the other way around
Naļ: .........oh


I am back for the most part (considering I have had internet at home since Sunday), it's just that there's some stuff that needs work, so I didn't enter the chatroom yet.

36
ROM Hacks + General Discussion / Re: THPP Wiki Situation
« on: August 21, 2013, 08:50:31 PM »
I understand that it wouldn't help much, but even then, if it means we can complete the puppet page project without Exs needing to find a new database, I'd be glad to do it.

The point isn't the reordering in itself; rather, it's just that, when I did the reorganization (not the reordering), that added exactly 9,592 characters to the script. The Touhoudex script is many pages long - there's a reason why the script reorganization took me more work than the switching itself.

37
Movesets / Re: [WIP]Zombie Fairy
« on: August 21, 2013, 08:41:41 PM »
Quote from: Shai
10/10 post Nai should be copied into the Guide
Thanks for the praise. It's probably too long to be copied into the Guide, though, considering it was meant to be a mini-essay on its own.

I guess making it a guide in its own right could be valid, but there would be some issues to be cleared first: for one, I'm not a moderator, so I can't just make a guide and sticky it. Instead, I'd have to discuss it with the moderation team first. Also, guides are naturally something that give some credit to the author, and I'm not too sure I want to look like I'm showing off right now...

Quote from: Shai
Clear, Concise, and Held attention very well despite clearing in tl;dr territory (which you lampshaded)
That was the whole point of it: using the post itself as an example. I did have to work for a while on it, but it seems to have yielded good results.

In other words, the point was to show that a long post doesn't necessarily have to be boring/wall-of-text-ish, and that spacing and formatting can help you a lot with it.







About Smogon,
Quote from: Naļ
In case you happen not to be familiar with the site (which I don't think is the case)
I just figured it'd be worth mentioning anyway. Even if you're familiar with it, that doesn't mean there isn't anything to be learned from it. For example:

Quote from: Shai
Tables
[table="border=1"]
PARAMETER APARAMETER BPARAMETER C
One
Two
Over 9000
You meanone likethis?
This iswrong,though
As usual,my codingsucks

Source code:
Code: [Select]
[table="border=1"]
[tr][td][b]PARAMETER A[/b][/td][td][b]PARAMETER B[/b][/td][td][b]PARAMETER C[/b][/td][/tr]
[tr][td][center]One[/center][/td][td][center]Two[/center][/td][td][center]Over 9000[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]You mean[/td][td]one like[/td][td]this?[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]This is[/td][td]wrong,[/td][td]though[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]As usual,[/td][td]my coding[/td][td]sucks[/td][/tr]
[/table]
As you can see, each tr adds a new row, while each td adds a new column to that row.
And as you can see, I have no idea of how to make it so that it has a usable border, or anything else other than rows and columns, for that matter. I swear I looked around...

The closest I could find would be this, but even then, headers have to be manually setup, as does centering, and I can't get borders to work.

Also, if you try setting something like centers up, you have to do so for each tr/td command.







Quote from: Shai
neat collapsible tag instead of this long bar abomination
You could always use spoiler tags so as to try and simulate their format.

Quote from: Shai
Full HTML Control of the Page
BBCode is supposed to have many features inspired on HTML, like the table one I just brought your attention to. You could probably even set up those neat yellow headers if you tried. It's just that I have no idea of how to do so myself... yeah, I know, not encouraging.







Quote from: Shai
[I actually do use preview a lot but I often feel like throwing edits in afterthoughts]
Ideally, the post should be tailored so that it doesn't require editing after posting, unless it's an edit regarding the content of the post itself (for example, adding new options or a new set).

That might be a problem in this case, considering you made the set as a WIP anyway - in other words, a set prone to later editing. Maybe that's why it ended up as a thread you'll probably have to edit a lot in the future, even though you used the preview function plenty.

Quote from: Shai
As Consistent as you can get zfairy to get to begin with haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Detect ZFairy is actually pretty consistent IMHO.



















Quote from: Josh
The issue is less shai's spacing and more the general disorginization of the post. If you focus on 1 or 2 sets that have been consistent at what they do and move other things to options then its a cleaner read overal and may be far easier to compose. I would suggest a wish/phaser support set and a perish trap set with other ideas placed in options. Also I've found that adding a support section is quite nifty and can allow cleaner writing overall.

Just a few things I've ran into fixing my sets that seem to be applicable here.
Pretty valid advice. Although I still think spacing is the main problem after all, Shai, it could be very helpful to keep what Josh said in mind.

If I were you, I'd start with trying to alleviate the spacing issues, then moving onto general organization and trying to follow the guides and models.

38
ROM Hacks + General Discussion / Re: THPP Wiki Situation
« on: August 21, 2013, 07:45:19 PM »
I understood his post for the most part. I don't know what's SQL, but I do have a general idea of how databases work, anyone would.

(meaning what you just told me was mostly repetition of what I had already understood, other than slapping me with wiki pages :< )

Hence,
Quote from: Naļ
I have no idea about the SQL server and all (what does SQL even mean?), but would trying to trim the codes help?
What takes up more space? Is it text, is it images, or what?

Would taking down all of the current images, rehosting them on an external database (Photobucket) and then linking to them help, or would that be even heavier than the alternative? Also, is it viable coding-wise, or does the wiki code only recognize images hosted in its own database?

Would changing the Touhoudex from the a || b || c format to the old
| a
| b
| c
one help? After all, even if the new format is much easier to read and work with, I think changing it added about 9k characters.
Which consists of me asking whether trimming down said so many STRING AND STRINGS AND STRINGS AND STRINGS AND STRINGS of data would help at all. That includes the images, and yet that doesn't mean it's limited to it.



Also,
Quote from: Shai
I've been meaning to say that I've been trying to get in contact with someone who has dealt with a similar  issue in the past [Webmaster of Soku Lobby], but he's giving me the cold-shoulder at the moment.
I'm not Exs, but if you do manage to contact him, I think everyone will be thankful. He'd probably give helpful feedback if he's willing to.

39
Off-topic / Re: Forum Topic
« on: August 21, 2013, 07:35:17 PM »

Retribution for the Eternal Ride?
Retribution for the Atomic Powered Maid









Also this



The Destructor does not forgive.



oh boy I sure hope I'm not banned for necroing
inb4 team of 6 retribution ruukotos in agastya's silly mode

40
Off-topic / Forum Topic II
« on: August 21, 2013, 07:29:27 PM »
So, I've been an ass recently (even moreso than Agastya).

For that, I'd like to apologize to the community.
I've also been writing too many words. Word overdose is bad for your health.



If anyone thought I wanted to actually rule the server or anything when I was saying I was going to rule the world, that's not what I had meant at all. It may not look like it, but I always kept in mind that this server was Exs' and Agastya's; that, as well as the fact that, in a way, it belongs to every one of you.

Nevertheless, I got ahead of myself and gave you all word poisoning.
I don't have money to buy you medicine, so I'll shut up for a while instead.



Because I'm me, though, I don't plan on actually stopping talking.
It's just that I won't do so with words. Not with more words than necessary, at least.

Anyway, sorry, everyone.
People who say what they want hear what they needed to hear. In a way, that's good for me, I guess.







EDIT: sometimes, I do feel that constructive criticism is necessary. That won't change, and when I do try to contribute in that way, I will still shower you with words. Please bear with it if it does happen.

However, I don't want to be poisoning you all. There are many issues in which criticism is either entirely unnecessary, best kept short, or doable without words. I will try my best to observe those three, but do keep in mind that I'm not very good at it.

If anything happens someone can just come up and slap me in the face, but that'll *hopefully* not be needed.

41
Shoddy Touhoumon Info/Discussion / Re: Touhoumon Damage Calc
« on: August 21, 2013, 06:41:32 PM »
Hey, this is seriously neat! Thanks a lot to everyone who worked on this.
(Shai and Doesnt, as well as Exs for hosting?)



Just a little nitpicking: we could probably use links to it on the wiki's main page, as well as on the wiki's sidebar. Otherwise it wouldn't get much divulgation, not everyone keeps track of the forum posts. That holds true for other utilities, as well, such as the team/puppet type analyzer.

I understand that adding anything to the wiki could be dangerous right now, but this wouldn't take up too much space (not if it's just linking to the calc, at least), and I believe it's rather important to have such utilities be properly well-known and used, since they might end up being an essential part of metagame determination later on.

42
ROM Hacks + General Discussion / Re: THPP Wiki Situation
« on: August 21, 2013, 06:25:04 PM »
Wait... what. Seriously? I had honestly never imagined this scenario...



I have no idea about the SQL server and all (what does SQL even mean?), but would trying to trim the codes help?
What takes up more space? Is it text, is it images, or what?

Would taking down all of the current images, rehosting them on an external database (Photobucket) and then linking to them help, or would that be even heavier than the alternative? Also, is it viable coding-wise, or does the wiki code only recognize images hosted in its own database?

Would changing the Touhoudex from the a || b || c format to the old
| a
| b
| c
one help? After all, even if the new format is much easier to read and work with, I think changing it added about 9k characters.



EDIT: can we (well, mainly Rhet :<) at least continue the puppet page optimization project? Will the database hold? It was the most pressing issue we had, and it's what helps with navigation the most; that, and it's probably almost finished.

EDIT2: does this only concern the wiki, or is making forum posts trouble for the database, too?...

43
Movesets / Re: Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« on: August 16, 2013, 11:21:57 PM »
Ugh the forums logging me in and out are being a troll and making me rewrite this post



Either way, you should probably give direct examples when mentioning Doesnt and Smogon as models. In mentioning Doesnt, for example, linking to a Doesnt set might be your best set bet.
yes i know im a genius at rhyming

Also, there's this mini-essay I just wrote. I don't know if any of the first part could apply as spacing/whatever guidelines, but the second part is aimed specifically at you and this thread.

44
Movesets / On spacing and text formatting
« on: August 16, 2013, 11:13:17 PM »
@Shai: I do have nearsightedness, but with glasses on I see perfectly well, you know qq
And no, we have neither, it's just that it genuinely looks bad. The monitor I'm using right now is normal-sized.



This is important, so I feel it should be explained before the wall of text itself.
Quote from: Shai
Ya'll already said to go the nine miles with editing/style/essay-ery in the Sticky but.. to do that method just isn't... enjoyable I feel [I actually had a lot fun writing this and dark alice]. It's a game not a Science Thesis nor a Literary Essay.
Whether you're writing about a game or about science doesn't change the fact that comments and actual text each require completely different styles of writing. If you want your idea to get across in actual text, then there are some basic points to be followed, and that doesn't change for gaming, either.

It's not about being precise or whatever, and it's not even about argumentation; it's just that, if you don't write properly, your idea simply doesn't get across. And that's always a problem, whether you're talking about Touhoumon, MLP or how the Bohr atom model influenced in the discovery and application of Bragg's Law and the diffraction of X-rays. In either of these cases, you necessarily want the reader to understand what you say, and that will never change.












Now lo and behold, for unto thee I bestow thy spacing essay! (lolwut)



Well, I'll try to explain it to the best of my ability. The main problem with your spacing is that if you use any text format too often along a text, then not only will that format lose its emphasizing function, it'll actually give the text a cluttered feel and make reading it harder, not easier. Single break lines are no exception.

Take a look at this post. In this single post, I use
  • single-line spaces to separate paragraphs;
  • simple breaks with no lines inbetween when I feel there is some continuity, but not enough to make a new paragraph, and yet not enough to just keep writing in the same line (rare usage);
  • three-line spacing breaks to separate groups of paragraphs;
  • very long (to be precise, exactly 12 lines long) spacing break to separate a post into more or less unrelated parts;
  • linebreaks accompanied by three-line spacing breaks both above and below to separate concepts within a subsection. A linebreak is done by using this code:
Code: [Select]
[hr]
    It is also worth mentioning that any change of format, such as the list above or a quote, works as a spacing separator. Because it's different from the rest of the text, the reader will automatically look at it as a separator, even if it wasn't meant to be one. Hence, it might be worth considering mixing one or two of them into your text.

    I sometimes use two-line spacing breaks here and there, too, but there are usually better options.




    If you put it this way, then it's as if you applied a form of spacing proper for short posts into a far longer post, and it just didn't work out. Because the simple one-line spacing break is used too often, it feels as if you didn't use any spacing at all, and, at the same time, it makes the text feel cluttered and hard to read. However, because it's the spacing you're used to, it looks perfectly normal to you.

    What's a spacing proper for shorter posts? Well, exactly the one you used. By separating it in such a fashion, you can easily stress out every and each idea contained in your sentences.

    However, for longer posts, each paragraph should be longer than that. I, particularly, write with relatively short paragraphs, usually ranging from two to three lines each, occasionally with a few longer paragraphs inbetween - as you can see, that forces me to shift my spacing accordingly. On the other hand, if you look at Smogon's and Doesnt's sets (to which I give example links in a bit), they can both write with relatively long paragraphs and not get into trouble for it.







    As you should quickly notice later, I use many other formats in this post, too - spacing alone wouldn't have cut it. The colors, for example, help with cleanly cutting the post in two, as well as with giving the text a more alive feeling. On the other hand, the bigger text in the beginning instinctively calls upon the reader's attention and tells him/her it's okay to start reading from that point.

    Placement is also important. Because I'm the kind of person who overuses the Preview function (which is a habit you should consider cultivating, as well), I often write a whole block of text, then go back and change or add something in the middle of it. That often applies to whole paragraphs. However, it may happen for me to quickly notice that, if placed there, said paragraph would either cause a discontinuation in the post's logic or change an idea's emphasis - which is exactly what happened with this section.

    As a rule of thumb, the spacing shouldn't determine the text; instead, the text itself and the ideas behind it should be the ones to determine the spacing. That means that you should probably take your time writing before trying to apply spacing; it also means that, as you write, you should take breaks here and there (preferably with the Preview function) and adjust the spacing from there.







    It might also be that you just haven't seen sets put in a better way and, as such, lack reference/inspiration. Even if this isn't the case, references are probably worth looking into.

    Here, I'll give you an example. In case you happen not to be familiar with the site (which I don't think is the case), click on "Team Options & Additional Comments" to see details on each set. If anyone was to put it into words, Smogon's sets look much better than yours :<. Because of that, it might be worth your while to try and use them as a reference.

    ...and yet, as you can see, they consist mainly of text put in a very simple way. However, because the separation is well-done,

    Other than that, Doesnt's sets (example) all look pretty good, too. Shanks even mentioned himself on this thread that Doesnt's style is a good example to follow.
    If you haven't read it all already (again, I don't think this is the case), then reading the thread I just linked you to would probably be helpful, too.



    Oh, and if you were wondering what's with the essay, that's one topic I have confidence in. Since a lot of my posts end up being very detailed - and, as such, kind of OMGWALLOFTEXTTHISISSODAMNLONG - I was forced to hone my spacing and formatting skills so that average people could understand what I try to express. Otherwise, most people will just skip half of it, if not just read the beginning and end...
















    @Shanks:
    Quote from: Shanks
    If you want to go and edit this, be my guest. I've already tried and failed.
    Quote from: Shanks
    I'm really sorry if I'm being mean here. I'm just a little upset with this.
    A good start would probably be updating your guideline thread so as to also mention some of the problems you're running into here. For example, you should probably add something about spacing somewhere, it could avoid future issues.

    Also, did you try mentioning Doesnt's model? If you don't know where to start improving a thread from, mentioning a model is probably your best bet. I'm aware you mentioned it in your guidelines (that's exactly where I'm taking it from), but you can't automatically assume everyone'll read them; because of that, it might be worth your time to start by mentioning the model when dealing with problems like this.

    Let's just say that the guidelines are for prevention and that your direct intervention is a remedy. However, in this case, if you remedy it by mentioning vital parts of the guidelines, then doesn't that work, too?

    Either way, these are just suggestions, but I hope I managed to help out a little.

    45
    Well, Bulbapedia does fail to mention this Gen III perk entirely. Instead, it just mentions that it was like that in Japanese D/P, but that it was fixed in Platinum and in localizations.

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