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Topics - Doesnt

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Movesets / [WIP]Technical Toyohime
« on: August 16, 2013, 04:55:32 AM »

Technical Toyohime
Type: Water/Earth
Ability: Own Tempo
Base Stats: 90 HP, 70 Attack, 90 Defense, 130 Special Attack, 110 Special Defense, 60 Speed

Special Attacker
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Attack)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Speed
- Surf
- Earth Power/AncientPower
- Shadow Ball/Mana Burst
- Calm Mind/Whirlwind/Yawn

130 satk rivals latios but ttoyo can run modest
surf, epower are stab and get good coverage
shadow ball hits dyuyuko, kaguya, and reasons, while mana burst hits normal reimu (who??) and faiths
fourth move is the biggie
calm mind lets you win stall wars, very nasty if speed creeping successfully and/or passed a tw/agility
whirlwind and yawn let you scout switches and are useful for emergency phazing

Other Options

Energy Ball gives you more damaging coverage against most Nature puppets, but has dubious accuracy and falters against Flying puppets trying to absorb your Earth attacks. Encore is a useful support move in some things, but Toyohime forces too many switches to make much use of it without excellent prediction and a lot of speed creep. Mirror Coat similarly requires prediction, but is discouraged because successfully using it will leave you with a weakened slow puppet. Draco Meteor gets you fantastic neutral coverage in Pokemon, but here it leaves you up a creek against Yuyuko and Kazami (and everything else the turn after you fire it off). Ice Shard is Technical Toyohime's sole source of Ice coverage, but it's hilariously weak even if you opt to invest your Attack for some reason:

252+ Atk Choice Band TToyohime Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ruukoto: 84-99 (34.85 - 41.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band TToyohime Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rikako: 122-144 (55.2 - 65.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band TToyohime Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Wriggle: 260-308 (78.54 - 93.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Ice Shard is her only way to hit Zombie Fairy though, so if that's an issue you might consider it. It also handily deals with most EndureSalac users, although there are much better puppets to run priority on. Shock Wave gives Wind coverage, but nothing in the game has a 4x Wind weakness or is worth hitting with Shock Wave instead of a STAB move. Rest could get you some recovery, but Technical Toyohime lacks Sleep Talk and will miss Leftovers recovery if she runs ChestoRest.

Technical Toyohime is rather notorious on Shoddy for being run with Speed investment, despite being only base 60 Speed, to outpace uninvested walls. How much you should invest depends on who you ask- the most common answer is 168 Speed EVs, which lets you outrun uninvested base 80s such as Attack Suwako. If you choose to speed creep your Toyohime, aware that this practice is rather well-known now- people have recently taken to speed creeping other puppets to outrun 168 EVs TToyohime, and most things don't have to invest too much to beat 252 Jolly TToyohime.

Team Support

TToyohime appreciates anything that helps her get Nature puppets out of the way, pre-emptively if possible. While the obvious solution is to use Wriggle or Speed Medicine to switch in against Nature puppets, many opponents will be paranoid about letting their Nature puppet take damage if they see the opponent has Toyohime. Thus, it can also be a good idea to run other puppets with anti-Nature moves that aren't needed for coverage, such as Poison Jab Yumeko and Poison Bomb Advent Reisen, alongside Toyohime. TToyohime has no reliable recovery of her own, so puppets with Wish are appreciated. She also fits comfortably onto Sand teams, but take care not to build up a heavy Nature weakness.

Toyohime herself provides good offensive support in general, and is fairly easy to slap onto a team so long as it isn't too weak to Nature. Puppets that are weak to Fire particularly appreciate her presence, as she full stops many Fire-type threats such as Defense Mokou and Mimi-chan.

Checks and Counters

Regular Kazami is weak to nothing Toyohime can throw at it besides a weak Ice Shard, has the bulk to shrug off neutral hits, is fast enough to outpace her regardless of her speed creeping with minimal investment, and can put up a Substitute as she switches out. Normal and Defense Kaguya can likewise come in for free on her and Recover any Spikes damage off. Most sturdy Nature puppets in general can come in on her fairly easily, but Medicine and Yuyuko forms should be wary of common coverage moves. More fragile Nature puppets such as Wriggle and Speed Medicine can threaten her, but are likely to lose a good chunk of health to even resisted hits. Pretty much any Nature puppet automatically checks her simply with their STAB, and many others can run non-STAB Energy Light if TToyohime gives their team a hard time.

Without using Nature, TToyohime is a bit harder to deal with. Advent Meiling can deal with most her attacks and Slack Off the damage, while threatening to Roar her out of she uses Calm Mind. Normal Reimu can come in against forms not packing Mana Burst and start a Calm Mind war, or just smash her with physical attacks.

Many powerful Band users can revenge her with a little prior damage- it's coming in on those smashy Surfs and Earthquakes that's the hard part.

i'll finish this later, or agastya or someone else can, it's late and i'm going to bed since i don't know what to write for the main section

Shoddy Touhoumon Info/Discussion / 1.8/1.812 consistency
« on: August 16, 2013, 02:07:01 AM »

i'm really fed up with hearing about these pm arguments from exs and aga

if you want to talk about 1.812 changes can we please do it here where other people can share their opinion

and we don't have people pming gifs and rude walls of text to each other

i want to make it clear i'm not pointing fingers at anybody, and let's keep it civil please


Movesets / Attack Lily Black
« on: August 15, 2013, 06:57:43 PM »

Attack Lily Black
Type- Dark
Ability: Guts
Base Stats: 70 HP, 130 Attack, 70 Defense, 40 Special Attack, 60 Special Defense, 110 Speed

Swords Dance
Item: Mistress Outfit/Bridal Gown
Ability: Guts
Nature: Jolly (+Speed, -SpAtk)
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
- Giga Impact/Outrage
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge/Steel Wing

This set is rather straight-forward, as Attack Lily Black doesn't have very much to play with. Go with Giga Impact or Outrage for STAB, depending on preference- Giga Impact has higher BP and misses less often, but will cause ALB to kill herself if she does miss or hits a Ghost. Heart Break exists but isn't worth using due to its mediocre BP. Extremespeed gives you priority, which is very helpful when combined with Swords Dance for cleaning injured teams. Double-Edge rounds out the set by preventing Ghosts from walling you- Steel Wing is an option if opposing Darks are a bigger problem, but it has disappointing BP.

Attack Lily Black's strength lies in her ability to fill many roles- she serves as a status absorber, a sweeper, and a wall-breaker with one set. She is not the best at any of these however- if you just want one of these roles filled, consider a cleric, Attack Remilia, or Attack Flandre for them, respectively. She also suffers from mediocre bulk, which means she won't have many chances to execute her jobs- Double-Edge's recoil and the burn damage she'll hopefully be taking compound this.

Other Options

You can choose to forego Swords Dance and hold a Choice Band instead- this is viable but requires very skilled predictions as most of her moves have immunities. She also has a wide physical movepool, but most of it isn't very good. Waterfall is an option but is only really good for picking on Rin (who is a target to come in on anyway to absorb Wisp). Substitute exists but isn't that great since you don't want it to block status. Psycho Cut, Heart Break, Selfdestruct, and Facade can be used if you like being walled by Ghosts. Shadow Hit gives you another option to hit Ghosts, and works better against most Yuyuko forms than Double-Edge, but has underwhelming power otherwise and leaves you walled cold by Mima. Rapid Spin could be used in a pinch but there are much more reliable users of it. Rage is inferior to Swords Dance unless you're running a hit and run Band set (and unfortunately doesn't work on Shoddy).

Attack Lily Black's status movepool mostly consists of moves that are outclassed on her by Outrage. Don't use her special attacks.

Team Support

Attack Lily Black serves better as support herself for teams that dislike status. Things that bait Burn are ideal- clerics are not. Having allies that can handle Ghosts (especially Youki) makes her life much easier.

Checks and Counters

Youki and Speed Youmu shut down any set hard if they can get in without taking Double-Edge. Darks in general are annoying if not carrying Steel Wing. Strong STAB Blade Flash users can cut her down, but have to be wary of a potentially boosted Extremespeed. If she's using Giga Impact, Detect can be lethal- as is switching a Ghost in.

Movesets / Speed Aya
« on: August 13, 2013, 02:28:21 PM »
hey wow i said i'd do this earlier and i still haven't written it

Speed Aya
Type: Wind/Flying
Ability: Speed Boost or Own Tempo
Base Stats: 70 HP, 105 Attack, 60 Defense, 95 Special Attack, 60 Special Defense, 140 Speed
Note- this puppet is currently banned in standard play

Offensive Baton Pass
Item: Airline Uniform/Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly (+Speed, -SpAtk)
EVs: 40 HP, 252 Attack, 216 Speed
- Brave Bird
- Hi Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Detect/Spikes/Twister/Taunt/Tailwind

Speed Aya has the coveted combination of Speed Boost and Baton Pass, shared only by Lily Black. While you might think that Speed Aya play would therefore revolve around stalling with Detect and Roost (she can't sub) to get free turns, this bird has another option- abuse her crazy powerful attacks to smash things and buy free turns that way. Speed Aya's Brave Bird is dangerous, forcing many common puppets such as Star forms, Aki Sisters, Kaguya forms, Rin, and Speed Medicine to switch out or be annihilated. It doesn't stop there though- Speed Aya is blessed with Hi Jump Kick as a coverage move, enabling it to score netural hits on everything but Elis and other Aya forms.

But wait! That's just the super-effective hits. Keep in mind that Speed Aya has 140 base speed- this lets it outrun or speed tie every unboosted puppet in the game other than Mimi-chan and Lily Black. This means that Speed Aya also serves as an excellent general-purpose revenge killer, as it can punish all of those other fast puppets like Yumemi, Speed Wriggle, Chen, and Lyrica. Pretty much the only one that you'll have to worry about is Youki (and Speed Aya) due to the threat of Blade Flash.

Now keep in mind that simply by doing its job of revenge killing stuff, Speed Aya is setting up. This is why she's so terrifying- if she can get in safely, if you don't have rock-solid prediction, you're going to have to take a powerful hit AND face something else with boosted speed. This is arguably Speed Aya's most effective set because of this- it takes full advantage of both her offensive presence and her powerful support. HP EVs are for padding Brave Bird recoil- if you really hate Mimi-chan you can run 252 Speed and it probably won't hurt much though. Keep in mind that as powerful as Speed Aya may be, she is not durable- avoid switching her into even resisted hits if you can avoid it. She also doesn't pick up a +1 if she spends a turn switching in (even in Shoddy now), so don't do that.

With regards to the fourth move, choose what helps your team best. Spikes is useful to have in general if the game takes a stally turn, while Twister can help in similar situations if you already have a dedicated spiker. Taunt and Detect both make getting the speed pass off easier- the former lets you thwart Roar/Whirlwind(but demands good prediction) while the latter lets you snag a boost in the face of something you can't kill. Tailwind is essentially Howl thanks to Speed Boost and is somewhat risky to go for with Speed Aya's questionable survivability, but is a welcome boost on many sweepers if you're running a physical-heavy team.

Item: Special Bloomers
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
- Brave Bird
- Hi Jump Kick
- Steel Wing
- Soar/Extremespeed

This set sacrifices Speed Aya's support capabilities to become the fastest revenge killer in the game. While you might think Technical Aya is better suited to this role, Speed Aya's absurd speed makes her even better at it. To give you an idea: Jolly Technical Aya hits 329 Attack and 372 Speed, while Adamant Speed Aya hits 339 Attack and 379 Speed, and can be tweaked to go even faster. There is no reason to use Technical Aya over Speed Aya for this job unless you run Adamant for maximum wall-breaking power.

What nature (or form) you run should depend on what your team needs. If Mimi-chan scares you, fully invested Jolly is the way to go as it speed ties the missile at +0. Adamant Speed Aya gets a little more immediate power, but is outrun by base 125s at +0, making her unreliable in the face of many fast threats (Speed Utsuho, Speed Flandre, Speed Yorihime, Advent Reisen, Rikako, Luna, Speed+Advent Marisa, Lyrica, Mimi-chan, etc.)- these sets especially should carry Extremespeed and have team support to deal with these threats if they get out of hand. Banded Technical Aya is only worth using if Adamant, which means you should probably be using her as a cleaner instead of a revenge killer since she speed ties base 105s at +0.

Other Options

Spikes and Twister are options for any set if your team needs them. Speed Aya also has access to Toxic- while this isn't a very useful move with her speed, it allows you to ruin common switch-ins such as Magic Stones and Defense Tenshi. Soar can be used on most sets in place of Brave Bird if you don't like the recoil or miss chance, but the power loss is noticeable.

Speed Aya has a bunch of special moves, including Aeroblast, Silver Wind, and Sonicboom, but these have less power and coverage than her physical choices and as such aren't very good. You could also run a defensive set with Roost and Detect, but if you aren't going to kill anything it might be better to use Lily Black. Rain Dance and Sunny Day are available, so you could use Speed Aya as a suicide weather starter, but without weather rocks this isn't likely to be too effective.

Team Support

Unless you're running Band, Speed Aya appreciates teams with lots of semi-fast mons she can pass to. Things that can outrun Mimi-chan at +1 are ideal, but slower puppets such as Technical Toyohime like the boost too. Slower Baton Pass users are also appreciated, as they let Speed Aya enter the fray safely (she won't get +1 for it though). If you aren't running Steel Wing, anything that gets rid of opposing Aya forms is great- this ironically makes Blade Flash Yumeko, her greatest nemesis, into a reliable partner (especially if it's running Swords Dance)

Checks and Counters

By definition a counter needs to be able to come in safely and force the puppet out- this doesn't apply very much to Speed Aya as forcing her out usually means she accomplishes her job of passing a Speed Boost along. Furthermore, most things with super-effective priority against her are Steel and thus can't come in without risking Hi Jump Kick. This is where Yumeko comes in- by virtue of her Dark typing she can take a Hi Jump Kick, and forces Speed Aya to switch out rather than pass for fear of Blade Flash. If Yumeko is feeling bold she can instead go for a Pursuit, but this will not work if she uses Baton Pass instead and will leave Yumeko in a nasty position.

Physically resilient puppets that are neutral to Flying and Dream and can phaze, such as Defense Tenshi, normal Aya, and Tenma, can also work, but these will get worn down over the course of a match and thus must be handled carefully. If your team is mostly slow and dependent on priority, Speed Aya can instead be managed safely with physical tanks such as Magic Stones that can't phaze. Bulky offense in general tends to give her a hard time- if there's nothing for her to safely kill, she won't have as many windows to get going, and if the opponent is relying on Bulk Up/Curse sweeping then a bit more speed won't get her team very far.

Teambuilding / team.sbt (SAya Abuse)
« on: August 03, 2013, 02:19:58 AM »
For a while, this was the only team I'd ever use. It's probably one of my best- far from perfect, but certainly better than what I usually throw together, and certainly better than any other offense team I've tried my hand with. Sadly Agastya saw how effective it was and decided that it must be punished, so the key member was henceforth banned from Shoddy.

(note: the above may be an embellishment)

Futo (F) @ Special Bloomers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 116 HP/252 Atk/140 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Fire Punch
- Sacred Fire
- Waterfall

Futo is probably not the best lead in the game, but she's still fairly good at her job. Special Bloomers means her Sacred Fire hits *very* hard, and Aqua Jet can pick off anything weak to it. The HP EVs ensure she lives Brave Bird from Banded Speed Aya exactly once while still outspeeding all Technical Toyohimes. Fire Punch provides coverage against Medicines- in hindsight Zen Headbutt would have been a better choice, as it gives coverage against Defense Hina and Byakurens as well, but I never got the chance to change it.

Yumeko (F) @ Lum (All) Berry
Ability: Guard Armor
EVs: 160 HP/252 Atk/96 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Sculpture
- Swords Dance

Yumeko is here to provide her famed Pursuit support, and has surprisingly good synergy with Futo. Her typing lets her come in on Reason and Miasma attacks, while baiting Fire and Heart attackers for Futo to absorb. The moves are somewhat unusual and really shouldn't work, but manage to anyway. Sculpture is used over Blade Flash as it's her strongest reliable attack, and lets her poke large holes in things like cheeky Hatates. Pursuit is obligatory- trapping Reasons that scare Futo makes her much more effective. Swords Dance is where things get a little strange- while Yumeko's speed is not terribly suited to sweeping, she becomes quite terrifying if she can pick up a boost from Speed Aya. Furthermore, it allows her to be surprisingly effective against defensive teams when combined with her investment. Poison Jab helps by dispatching Stars and Kaguyas, which threaten a lot of my mons- while it's not as good for coverage as Superpower, it lets me keep on sweeping, and eliminating those thorns is more important than smacking Steels (most of which are heckled by Rin). Lum is essential for this to work- Yumeko hates every status but Toxic, and being on a team with a passing Speed Aya means she's very likely to take it. EVs allow her to outrun Mimi-chan at +2 while maintaining most of her power and bulk.

Speed Wriggle (M) @ Petaya (Spa) Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SpAtk
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk)
- Aeroblast
- Heat Wave
- Nature Sound
- Substitute

I don't like this set. It's very predictable, blatantly obvious, and generally inclined to be sweepy. It's also the only thing Speed Wriggle can realistically run with her limited movepool (besides perhaps favoring Poison Bomb or Sonicboom for coverage). That said, it fills two very important roles for the team- it provides STAB Nature coverage, which is essential in a meta-game with Sendai (and very useful in general), and it gives me a fast revenge killer. In a pinch (har har), she can also function as an emergency sweeper with Petaya Overgrow, but this is extremely unlikely to work unless the foe is heavily weakened. As this team is more about blowing holes in things than weakening them (no spikes!), that doesn't happen often.

I ran a 4 Attacks Yuyuko in this slot for a while, hoping to make more use of Speed Aya's passing, but I found her much less useful as it deprived me of options against faster threats.

Scumbag Aya (Speed Aya) (F) @ Airline Uniform (Flying)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Brave Bird
- Detect
- High Jump Kick

Speed Aya is the unintended crux of the team. Her insane speed lets her threaten most of the game, and she serves as a secondary revenge killer of sorts. Of course, she this isn't all she does- Baton Pass means that when push comes to shove, somebody else on the team gets a free +1 or +2 to speed. This can be rather terrifying- Futo, Yumeko, and Technical Toyohime area all capable of steamrolling teams unprepared for their terrible might when they're suddenly outspeeding everything. The set has undergone several revisions- normally I advise running just 252 Atk, enough speed to outrun Advent Marisa and putting the rest in HP to soften Brave Birds, but without Shoddy's bugged Speed Boost mechanics Detect becomes much more useful for snagging boosts. It should be noted that Speed Aya is rather fragile, especially with speed investment- while she may resist most of, say, Aki Sisters' attacks, she won't appreciate coming in on them too often. If playing on Shoddy, I advise running Spikes over Detect to gain an edge against slower, more defensive teams.


Rin (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Impish nature (+Def,-SpAtk)
- Crunch
- Extremespeed
- Will-o-wisp
- Wish

I don't like Rin. I think she's a boring character, and bad as a puppet, but she's here and still manages to work. Most of the time. Rin serves as a physically defensive pivot- Intimidate lets her soften things up so other mons can come in, perhaps with oft-appreciated Wish support. Crunch allows her to mangle Youki and Speed Youmu, who would otherwise be prominent threats. Extremespeed allows her to kill SubSalac and Endure abusers, while Will-o-wisp lets her break Lum Berries miss burn stubborn physical attackers and rack up residual damage against special switch-ins. Take care with Rin- while she is a useful pivot, she is not a wall, and many prominent physical threats such as Sendai, Technical Byakuren, and Attack Reimu (who you shouldn't come in on anyway) are immune to Intimidate. If playing on cart, this list grows to include Attack Yuugi and Kasen, who can do a number on Rin if she tries switching in on them.

Technical Toyohime (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 88 HP/168 Spd/252 SpAtk
Modest nature (+SpAtk,-Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Surf

Technical Toyohime is easily one of the best puppets in the game. Fully invested 130 Special Attack means her attacks leave a mark in everything but dedicated special walls, and she comes with Calm Mind to break through those. She also has fantastic 90/90/110 bulk, and enough speed to be dangerous when passed boosts. EVs enable her to outspeed uninvested base 85s at +0 and plenty of other things when given boosts- most stuff fast enough to outrun a boosted Toyohime can't hit her hard enough to break past her defenses faster than her potentially CM-Boosted Surfs wash them away. Shadow Ball is chosen as the coverage move to heckle Hatate and Yuyuko- I find it generally superior to Mana Burst.

Teambuilding / How to counter-team Doesnt
« on: January 06, 2013, 03:49:16 PM »
This isn't actually the only team I use anymore, so I'm going to go ahead and post it so, if nothing else, we might get some discussion in this dead subforum.

Magic Stones
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
Nature: Bold
-Luster Purge

Magic Stones is a fairly effective anti-lead, swiftly erasing many threats that decide to stay in with the right coverage move. Luster Purge is STAB, Flamethrower hits Steels that would resist it, and Sonicboom, while not an obvious or terribly great coverage choice, shoots down Darks that would try to take advantage of the Stones' typing. Recover allows the Stones to stick around as a physically defensive pivot

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Speed
Nature: Careful
-Draw the Line

Standard Konngara. While Magic Stones walls physical threats, Konngara walls the special ones. The moveset is self-explanatory- Toxic kills most things, Strength smacks Steels trying to absorb Toxic, and Draw the Line is STAB. Recover is needed for Kon to properly wall foes. Konngara also blocks Rapid Spins, especially from Hina, who can't break through even with Flamethrower.

Advent Meiling
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Def
Nature: Careful
-Heal Bell
-Slack Off
-Vital Throw

The best cleric in the game, and a second special wall- Konngara has too many weaknesses to take on every special threat. Heal Bell keeps the team free from status, especially Toxic. Slack Off is recovery, Roar forces switches and keeps Meiling from being set-up bait, and Vital Throw is a fairly reliable attacking move that can remove Leftovers from foes, causing residual damage to stack up faster. Being an Advent also allows her to come in on Sakuya's World, which is a very useful function for a stall team.

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP/128 Def/128 SDef
Nature: Bold

The only reason a party of walls is able to work is Spikes, which Aya provides. Roost allows her to stay alive, which is important if the foe has a spinner, Whirlwind allows Aya to abuse her own Spikes and keep foes from setting up on her, and Twister keeps Spikes off my end of the field.

Defense Tenshi
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Hisouten
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Nature: Impish

Another physical wall, and a Twister spin-blocker. I chose not to run Rock Bullet on this as it does depressingly little damage without Attack investment and leads to Tenshi losing to Earth-weak physical threats such as Sakuya. Spikes is there in case Aya can't do her job, Toxic punishes fliers and other foes looking to avoid Earthquake, and Roar prevents Swords Dancers from setting up. I do not run Draw the Line on this set as Toxic renders it redundant for puppets not named Hina.

Speed Marisa
Item: Blazer (+Heart)
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Speed/4 Atk
Nature: Hasty
-Volt Tackle
-Signal Beam
-Mana Burst

The revenge killer and general-purpose panic button for use if something boosts too high. Uninvested Volt Tackle may look silly, but Hustle gives Marisa a higher Attack than Special Attack, so it is a valid option against specially bulky threats. Most of the time I just click Signal Beam or the appropriate coverage move though.

As you've probably figured out, this is a fairly simple stall team- the goal is to get Spikes down and force switches until everything is either dead or too wounded to stand up to Speed Marisa. It tends not to work very well because:

-The only way to kill Tenma is to either get a lucky Toxic off or to wait for her to be the last mon
-Youki pretty much walks all over the team
-Attack Murasa murders everything if I don't just spam recovery moves once she gets Rain up
-Hard-hitting Earths in general such as Attack Tenshi smash their way through the team

cries at the poor quality of team and clicks post anyway

Movesets / Konngara
« on: November 22, 2012, 03:21:52 AM »

Type: Steel
Ability: Sturdy or Pressure
Base Stats: 90 HP, 120 Attack, 65 Defense, 70 Special Attack, 135 Special Defense, 70 Speed

Toxic Stall
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
-Drawn Line

wow what is this guy doing writing an analysis he doesn't know anything about the metagame

With 90/135 special bulk, fully invested Konngara is one of the hardest things in the game to kill with unboosted special attacks. To give you an idea of how resilient she is:

Modest Helper Eirin Aqua Shower (full health): 34-41%
Timid Advent Reisen Energy Ball: 38-45%
Timid Speed Yorihime Fire Blast: 40-47%
Modest Dark Alice Hyper Beam w/Mistress Outfit: 42-49%
Modest 252 SpAtk Speed Sariel +1 Energy Ball: 69-82%

I still wouldn't leave her in on the latter two, but you get the idea- she's very hard to kill. The investment is crucial to surviving these blows however- tempting as it may be to patch up Kon's subpar physical Defense or ramp up her Attack, it will leave her open to hits that she should be able to take, namely non-STAB Fire Blasts and Energy Balls from strong attackers.

The moveset is straightforward: Toxic is, despite Kon's nice 120 base attack, how you will be doing most of your damage. Recover is vital to preserving her for the duration of a match and stalling for more Toxic damage. Strength lets you smack Steels trying to absorb Toxic or Drawn Line(you could run Brick Break, but screens are uncommon and the chance of getting an Attack boost can be helpful). Drawn Line is STAB and does respectable damage even uninvested.

Other Options
Kon's shallow movepool has a few other options, but they aren't very good. Braver hits harder than Drawn Line but is much less reliable and has a meager 8 PP- with no boosting moves to speak of and 70 Speed, I don't see offensive Konngara sweeping anything. Coerce coupled with Pressure lets you quickly drain PP, but this is unreliable in Gen 3 and spamming Recover is safer- most of the moves you'll be stalling are 8 PP moves anyway. Rock Tomb lets you hit Miasmas super-effectively for slightly less damage than neutral STAB Drawn Line. Seismic Toss does fixed damage, but unless you're up against Yuugenmagan or something an uninvested Drawn Line is good enough. Taunt is mediocre coming off 70 base Speed in an environment where it only lasts one turn anyway, and isn't needed to stall-break against recovery moves due to Toxic's increasing damage. Poison Jab lets Konngara punish Star Sapphire, but barring Refresh or Substitute they're just as scared of Toxic, and isn't really worth a moveslot since it doesn't work on Steels. Gunk Shot is just plain silly.

Team Support
Konngara hates physical moves- having something that can take them well, such as Kikuri, Magic Stones, Helper Star, or Defense Tenshi is appreciated. Due to her ability to force switches, Spikes and Rapid Spin support is also important. Unlike other walls Konngara doesn't absolutely require Aromatherapy support, thanks to her Toxic immunity, but her partners on a stall team probably will.

As a special wall the list of things that can counter Konngara is vast- two of the biggest threats are Yumeko in OU and Sakuya in UU. Both of the maids are immune to Toxic, weak to none of Kon's viable moves, and can use the free turn to put Spikes down- the former can cripple her with STAB Pursuit (uninvested does 46-55% if she switches, fully invested does 63-74%), while the latter threatens to either Swords Dance or freeze something with Luna Dial, which is tricky to resist in UU. Sturdy Steel types, such as Attack Suwako and Youmu, can come in on Toxic and Drawn Line and threaten with a physical SE move, but must be wary of taking a Strength on the switch. Yamame forms can take physical attacks and Toxic all day and threaten with Earthquake, Spikes and Tailwind. Extremely powerful special attackers can sometimes overwhelm Konngara- Attack Murasa in Rain can 2HKO with Hydro Pump if Konngara does anything other than Recover. Mokou forms can Recover off any damage Konngara's non-STAB attacks do, can hamper Kon's walling abilities with Will-o-Wisp or kill her with Flare Blitz, and because of Natural Cure aren't afraid of Toxic.

Pretty much any half-decent physical attacker that isn't weak to Steel can check Konngara. The tricky part is getting it in without taking Toxic.

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