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Messages - Voltex

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Movesets / Re: [WIP]Attack Rumia
« on: October 16, 2013, 09:14:50 PM »
I was not sure of Attack Rumia's endurance so I didn't think Slack Off or Salac would be good options. But if you say she should be able to take a few hits, then I will include them in the OP.

Teambuilding / Re: My team
« on: October 16, 2013, 09:08:20 PM »
I find funny how I considered Yukari and Rumia among the strongest of the team, while you mention they are the ones I should be likely dropping.
You might say I am being too picky, but I don't want to change more than 2 members of the team, because then I might as well build another team.
Actually I just wanted to optimize this team I got now, as I noticed that vanilla Yamame and Murasa were not working well, and wanted to know if there were better builds for them, which was the case for Nue.
You already helped me with that; thanks for your suggestions so far.

Teambuilding / Re: My team
« on: October 16, 2013, 06:50:51 PM »
I didn't go into the whole "fixing the glaring typing issues" because you stated the whole "want to keep all my mons" thing and far be it from me to separate a man from his favorite puppets.

My point was that ideally I would like to keep my fav mons but I actually don't mind going for other Puppets for the sake of the team.
Plus, those 6 are not only my favorites so, for instance, now that you recommend a Heart Puppet, I can look for other Puppets that I like with Heart-typing, such as a Koishi or a Parsee form.

Any move suggestions for a Sp.Def Murasa?

Will stick with Recover Nue for the time being to test and confirm if it is a worthy build or not. Then I will switch to Stallbreaker as suggested.

Something similar goes for Yukari: want to continue testing the whole Rest+Snore build. She might be slow, but she has been quite effective so far.

Will go for an Baton Pass S Yamame then.

Teambuilding / Re: My team
« on: October 15, 2013, 08:20:19 PM »
I'm assuming you mean Speed Yamame because Technical cannot learn Baton Pass nor benefits from Tailwind.

And yeah, that's what I thought at first but I would like to test an Spike Yamame before shifting to S Yamame. The thing is that I have no idea which EVs and nature would be the best for that build.

However, the vulnerability to Ghost and Reason is one of my biggest concern, so any suggestions of Puppets who can patch those weaknesses will be appreciated.

Teambuilding / My team
« on: October 14, 2013, 02:10:15 AM »
Decided to share the only Team I have battled with.
I built it with my favorite Puppets so it ended up with several weaknesses, and the forms and builds of some of them are not the best because I am testing, so any help will be appreciated.

Attack Rumia (F) @ Mistress Outfit
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 ATK/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-Sp.Atk)
- Braver
- Poison Jab
- Superpower
- Trash

Physical sweeper, Anti-Lead?. Her purpose is to take down the opponent's lead and switch out to revenge kill something later. Not using Special Bloomers because I am not really a fan of the item.

Nue (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-Sp. Atk)
- Brave Bird
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
- Recover

Physical Sweeper. Experimental Nue set with investment on HP to take the most from Recover and attempt multiple SDs. Sometimes works and Recover let's her stall a bit, but most of the time she only gets to SD once and sweep what she can.

Yamame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infectious
EVs: 252 HP/64 Atk/188 Sp.Def
Careful nature (+Sp.Def,-Sp.Atk)
- Curse
- Pain Split
- Poison Jab
- Rock Bullet

Curse Sweeper? Experimental Curse set that is not working well. Rock Bullet is there to defeat annoying Mimi-Chans and in theory it should become dangerous after multiple Curses (with high priority the Speed reduction becomes irrelevant), but I have never been able to pull it off: she doesn't last enough even after 2 Curses.
With 188 Sp.Def she reaches a decent 300 Sp.Def but I'm thinking in scrapping this moveset entirely and go for an Spike build, or perhaps go for Speed Yamame instead.

Speed Kogasa (F) @ Petaya Berry (Sp.Atk)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Sp.Atk/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Surf
- Twister

Utility. Took this set from Ichor's moveset thread and it am satisfied with it.

Murasa (M) @ Liechi Berry (Atk)
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-Sp.Atk)
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Substitute

Physical Sweeper. To be honest I have not battled with this build yet so I don't know if it any good. Used to have a Murasa with Aqua Jet/ Steel Fist/Sub/Haze for utility and EV investment on Sp.Def for using her as an Special Wall but she was not working well. So I went for this build focuses on Maximizing Atk and hit with Aqua Jet. Ice Punch and Psycho Cut are for hitting Natures and Faiths who resist Aqua Jet.

Yukari (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Barrier
EVs: 252 HP/132 Def/120 Sp.Atk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Mana Burst
- Mana Charge
- Rest
- Snore

Calm Mind + Rest. My pride and joy and she is often my lifesaver. With 132 Def EV she reaches a respectable 350 Def, and lets me invest the rest on Sp.Atk to compensate her low Base 75 Sp.Atk. I know Snore looks like a gimmick but attacking while sleeping is really good, and Dream happens to be effective against types that resist Reason (except Ghost, but inflicts neutral damage against it).

As you can see, the team doesn't have any specific strategy or goal: it's more of an anything-goes team with barely any synergy. Then, 3 Puppets being weak to Ghost and Reason, and only 1 Puppet resisting Ghost doesn't help.
I must admit that while I have the basic idea for building movesets, I'm not good when it comes to teams, so I am asking for your advice.
But, if possible, I would like to keep these Puppets, or at most change them to other Forms that support better the team.

Movesets / [WIP]Attack Rumia
« on: September 26, 2013, 01:30:14 AM »
WIP: No mention of specific counter and support Puppets, other moves and builds have yet to be explored.

Attack Rumia

Type: Dark/Miasma
Resistances: Dark, Dream, Illusion, Miasma, Nature
Weaknesses: Steel, Reason
Immunities: Earth

Base Stats:
HP: 70
Atk: 130
Def: 70
Spd: 95
Sp.Atk: 75
Sp.Def: 70

Someone has removed Rumia's amulet, and her most threatening form has been released. With full control over her power of darkness, and a wicked blade at her hands, now Attack Rumia shall punish those who sealed her, and everything that stands on her way.

After looking at those Base Stats, it should be clear which is the best role for Attack Rumia: Physical Sweeper. And she does get the tools for that job, one of them being Thrash, a Dark-type move which after STAB reaches a threatening 150 Base Power.
She also has access to Superpower, a powerful Dream-Type move which conveniently covers the weakness of Dark-Types to Steel and Heart attacks; so any Puppet with those types shouldn't feel comfortable while facing Attack Rumia.

Why should you consider Attack Rumia in your team?
With Attack Remilia and Attack Flandre being able to learn Thrash and Superpower and having a similar stat spread but with more Speed and Attack respectively, Attack Rumia seems apparently outclassed by these two; so why bother with Attack Rumia, you may ask?
The answer is in Attack Rumia's typing, Ability and movepool.
Miasma-type provides her 2 resistances, compensates her weaknesses to Faith and Heart from her Dark Type, and turns her immune to Poison; while her Ability Levitate covers her Earth weakness from Miasma-type and turns her immune to Spikes damage. With Poison and Spikes immunity, Attack Rumia should be easier to switch in that the Scarlet Sisters.
Comparing Attack Rumia with the each sister:
vs. Attack Remilia: Attack Rumia has less Speed, but more resistances.
vs. Attack Flandre: Attack Rumia has less Attack, but more resistances and doesn't suffer from any sort of Accuracy loss.
Finally, Attack Rumia is able to learn a couple of moves that the Scarlet Sisters cannot, and compliment the combination of Thrash + Superpower quite well.
For instance, that menacing sword Attack Rumia carries is not only for show, because it gives her access to Braver, a dangerous Steel-Type move that compliments the Thrash + Superpower combo by hitting opposing Dark Puppets hard.
Then, while the Scarlet Sisters may have trouble handling Ghost-type Puppets who wall their main move Thrash, Attack Rumia has access to Crunch, which hit Ghost-types with virtually 160 Power after super-effective damage.

Levitate: A great Ability by itself, but Attack Rumia further benefits from it because it removes her weakness to Earth.

Blooming Darkness (Choice)
Attack Rumia @ Special Bloomers
Nature: Jolly (+Spd; -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Poison Jab/Crunch/Fire Punch

Straightforward Special Bloomers set: Just give Attack Rumia four attacking moves and Special Bloomers and beat anything that faces her. Jolly Nature because with only 95 base Speed, she needs all the Speed she can get.
Poison Jab gains STAB for another 120 Base Power attack besides Braver, while Crunch damages with super effective damage those problematic Ghosts that might attempt to wall Thrash, and Fire Punch can allow Attack Rumia to deal with threatening Steel types who resist Superpower.

Bluffing Bloomers
Attack Rumia @ Lum Berry/Mistress Outfit
Nature: Jolly (+Spd; -Sp.Atk)
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Poison Jab/Crunch/Fire Punch

Special Bloomers sets are somewhat common, so you could go for another item instead and throw a surprise attack if your opponent assumes Attack Rumia is locked with a move.

[As you might have noticed, these sets are pretty much the same ones you would expect in Attack Remilia and Attack Flandre. This should be no surprise as the three Puppets have similar stat spreads, differing only in their available moves.]

Other options:
Ice/Thunder Punch/Shadow Hit: You can resort to these moves if you want Attack Rumia to be able to handle specific Puppets that the rest of your Team would have trouble with.
Toxic/Will-o-Wisp/Confuse Ray: You are free to use a move slot for one of these Status moves and take advantage of the element of surprise, but I wouldn't recommend it as Attack Rumia is clearly not the best Puppet for spreading status.
Swords Dance: In the non-Bloomers set, you can run this move and try to use it when you get the chance, but keep in mind that it will be difficult to pull off, and it might require Dual Screens, Sleep or Baton Pass support from the team.

Slack Off: "While A Rumia has pretty terribad bulk her Semi Unique typing makes her far harder to straight up kill than you would imagine, combine that with a spikes immunity and you'd be surprised at how often she gets a chance to heal up." - josh
Memento: "95 base is an awkward speed tier however it notably outruns base 90 setup sweepers and bulky tailwinders allowing Rumia to freely drop a memento to turn an otherwise deadly sweeper into setup fodder. Memento gets the nod over Wilo cause...wilo friggin misses and stray lums are a near constant in touhoumons." - josh

Salac Berry: "95 Base is slightly over the magic 90 adamant where you outrun everything unboosted at +1 so Salac can be used if you just love betting on damage ranges." - josh

An above average Base Speed is Attack Rumia's biggest issue, so she will really appreciate Paralysis and Speed Baton Pass support.
If your team can reliably pass at least 1 stage of Speed to Attack Rumia, then you could go for an EV spread of:
[252 Atk/108 Spd/148 HP] with Jolly Nature
or, for a higher offense:
[252 Atk/208 Spd/48 HP] and Adamant Nature
With those spreads she is able to reach 417 Speed after +1 stage of Speed, out speeding even Puppets with 140 Base Speed and Positive-Speed Nature; with the first spread and without any boost on Speed, Attack Rumia is able to out speed from base 75's with full investment on Speed, to base 120's with Neutral-Speed Natures and 0 investment on Speed.
Needless to say, avoid using Special Bloomers when Baton Passing to Attack Rumia because there is the risk of being walled by a Puppet, forcing you to switch out and waste the stat boosts.

Attack Rumia dislikes Steel and fast Reason Puppets the most, so she will want Puppets who can deal with them as team partners.

Blade Flash users and fast Puppets with STAB Steel and Reason attacks should be able to handle Attack Rumia with ease.
Ghosts can switch into Thrash with no problems and take the opportunity to use a move.
Much like with Attack Remilia, Yumeko and Rika are notable counters as both take Neutral damage from the 3 Attack Rumia's main attacks and retaliate with Steel attacks.

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Yukari
« on: August 27, 2013, 09:01:28 PM »
I see. I'm considering in testing it to see how well she does or what can be done to fix it. For instance, at first glance I would drop Trick and give her Leftovers to increase her durability, and fill the remaining move slot with Detect or another support move.

P.D.: I noticed you use the acronyms "HO" and "POS"; what do they stand for? I have my guesses like "High Offensive" for the first one,  but I want to be sure.

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Yukari
« on: August 27, 2013, 08:18:54 PM »
@josh: Forgot to ask: Was the set you posted effective when you tried it? If so, I will include it in the OP.

Movesets / Re: Luna Child
« on: August 27, 2013, 08:07:15 PM »
Does Luna Child need Nasty Plot to be relevant in the competitive environment, or she can run a support or 4th coverage move instead and still inflict damage without problems? I know she has a nice 100 base Sp.Atk, but maybe more is needed to stand against most Puppets in the metagame?

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Nue
« on: August 27, 2013, 07:42:31 PM »
I will also clean the descriptions a bit and include a link to Nue's wiki page.

Movesets / Re: Speed Yamame
« on: August 22, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »
Great thread!
I was thinking in posting a WIP for Speed Yamame's because I noticed that even after seeing the Puppet in a couple of teams no one had posted anything about her yet, but I'm glad you beat me to it because I would have missed several things like the Choice set, the coverage provided by Steel Fist and the Speed calculations.

To contribute to the thread, I think you could include these moves in Other Options:
Needle Arm: Effective against Earth Puppets that threat S Yamame with Earth attacks, and with S Yamame's high Speed you can take advantage of the random flinch chance.
Cross Poison: Pretty much swap with Poison Jab for -15 base Power (after STAB) but higher critical hit chance if you are feeling lucky. Still, Poison Jab is more reliable.

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 07:45:49 PM »
Apparently, vanilla Nue cannot learn Substitute (not listed in Shoody either).

I won't remove the SD set because it is still useable. Who knows, maybe in a few months the popularity of Steels will drop, giving SD Nue the chance to rise.

@Nai: By the way, you mentioned that I should be listing Mimi-Chan as an specific counter but I prefer to not do so because, after all, Mimi-Chan is a counter to a lot of Puppets and by mentioning Steels as Nue's weakness the rocket is being included.

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 06:34:32 PM »
I agree with everyone: Nue should focus more on her support moves rather than only try to compete against other set-up Puppets that might outclass her (like the mentioned A Reimu). I started with SD set in the OP because it was the only build I have tested (and I myself run a variant with Recover and 252 HP EVs, not strictly SD), but I knew she had way more options available (hence the WIP tag stating that other sets still need test).

For instance, the Stallbreaker and Antilead sets Josh mentions definitely look more effective, more fun than "SD then sweep" and actually take advantage of Nue's support moves. The Antilead set does remind me of Azelf, who if I am not mistaken, is (or was) a popular lead that runs Explosion.

Thanks for your comments, and I will update the OP.

Movesets / Re: [WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 01:58:07 AM »
My mistake: Gale is Flying-Type. I mixed it up with Twister and thought it was Wind-Type. So I guess that's make 2 priority moves Nue is weak against.

I will fix the original post, and include Disable in "Other Options" as well.

Movesets / [WIP]Nue
« on: August 22, 2013, 01:02:04 AM »
WIP: List of Counters and support Puppets incomplete, other sets need testing.


Type: Miasma/Flying
Resistances: Dream, Miasma, Faith, Heart, Beast, Nature(x2)
Immunities: Earth
Weaknesses: Reason, Steel, Wind, Ice

Base Stats:
HP: 90
Atk: 95
Def: 80
Spd: 130
Sp.Atk: 75
Sp.Def: 80

Nue, the Mysterious Youkai. When I saw her stats, my first thought was "wow, the only thing she needs is Swords Dance" and sure enough, she is able to learn this move, allowing her to become a fierce attacker.
Then, the combination of Miasma/Flying is really nice, granting Nue immunity to Poison status and Earth attacks, resistance to 5 types and a x4 resistance to Nature-type, which allows her to switch safely into Toxic and predicted Earth or Nature attacks.
And just in case that wasn't enough, Nue has a respectable amount of support moves at her disposal, namely Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Recover and Toxic, which combined with her great base Speed allow her to work effectively against leads and annoying walls.

However, after all this, Nue still has her flaws. Although Flying nullifies Miasma's weakness Earth, she still has several weaknesses from her Flying-type. Then, the fact that Flying-type is weak to not only 1, but 2 priority moves (Blade Flash and Ice Shard) doesn't help, as those moves turn Nue's high Speed irrelevant. Finally, Nue is way too vulnerable to Steel-types, who not only resist her both STABs, but also threat her with STAB super-effective Steel attacks AND Nue cannot learn any move effective against them.

Nue can be highly aggressive Puppet, but at the same time she has several tricks under her hand, and if the opponent doesn't have any Steel type or priority users (or you deal with them in advance), she might be able to finish entire Teams by herself.
The closest Pokemon version of Nue is Crobat, who apparently is not doing that bad at the OU Metagame, and with a wider support movepool and slightly better stats, we should expect even more from Nue.

Mysterious: Although it fits Nue as the Mysterious Youkai, you should only give her this ability if you want a for-fun set, because it will mess your STABs up and your opponent can take advantage of it by using its own coverage moves.
Pressure: Not the best ability around, but definitely better than the other option, and it is always good to deplete those stalling or powerful 5-PP moves faster.

Suggested by Josh:

Nue @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 216 Spd/40 Hp/252 Atk
Nature: Jolly (+Spd-Spatk)
-Brave Bird/Poison Jab

"The given EV's outspeed base 100 fully invested allowing Nue to outpace even the fastest walls in the game and the combination of taunt, recover, and WoW allows her to break them down pressure is just icing on the cake and can allow Nue to PP stall a few otherwise annoying moves. Max attack is just there to fully abuse brave bird because offensive D kayuga is a thing, but you can run a 16 spd/240 Hp/252 Def/Spdef spread instead to take hits better.

Countered by: Magic stones/H Eirin/Chiyuri"

Nue @ Airline Uniform/Wedding Dress
Ability: Pressure
Ev's: 252 Spd/252 Atk/4 Hp
Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-SpAtk)
-Brave Bird
-Wilo Wisp

"Taunt spiker and then either cripple it, Kill it with brave bird, or wtfboom to take it out. Or just wtfboom to grab the games momentum instantly and attempt to force a sweep with another mon."

U.F.D. - Undefined Fantastic Dance (Swords Dance)
Nue @ Lum Berry/Leftovers/Airline Uniform/Nurse Uniform
Nature: Adamant (+Atk; -Sp.Atk)/ Jolly (+Spd; -Sp.Atk)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Brave Bird
-Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
-Selfdestruct/Heart Break/Steel Wing

Set up Swords Dance and then sweep. Brave Bird and Poison Jab are your STAB moves and after Nue is worn down by the recoil of the former move, you can finish with a boom!
If you are a fan of Fire Blast and similar moves, then Gunk Shot is the move for you, but if you prefer accuracy over power, you can stick with Poison Jab and let Brave Bird inflict the heavy damage.
If you don't like the idea of Self-destructing Nue, then you can go for Heart Break to hit hard any Reason-type that might threat Nue, or Steel Wing to take down threatening Ice-types and for coverage, but it will be resisted by the dreaded Steels.
Lum Berry is the first item of choice, while Leftovers increases durability and mitigates the recoil from Brave Bird, but you can hold Airline Uniform to dish even deadlier Brave Birds out, or Nurse Uniform if you feel that Poison Jab needs a boost or want to shoot devastating Gunk Shots.

Because of the popularity of Steel-types, this moveset is the least recommended, but it is still an option for taking down non-Steels.

Other options:
Toxic/Taunt/Will-o-Wisp/Confuse Ray: You can take advantage of Nue's high Speed to cause status on the opposing Puppet or lock its support moves before they get the chance of doing anything.
Recover: With average 90/80/80 defenses, 6 resistances and 1 immunity, Recover is a feasible move for Nue, allowing her to last longer, relief recoil damage and, given the opportunity, set Swords Dance a second and even a third time. This move can be further supported with Leftovers and an investment on HP.
Quick Attack: If you hate the fact that even with full investment on Speed Nue priority moves can still outspeed her, you can resort to this move. However, by using this would be dropping either the powerful Brave Bird, or limiting Nue's already small coverage even more.
Cross Poison: If you want to bet on the RNG you can use this instead of Poison Jab. It has 15 less Base Power after STAB, but landing a critical hit can be a game-changer.
Ingrain: This move can allow Nue to Sword Dance without fear of losing the boosts through Phazing while relieving recoil damage.

Disable: "After something dies to Drawn Line/Braver, Mana Burst/Luster Purge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam you can lock out their Nue-killing move and SD Up". - shai_LP

[Despite her average defenses, the combination of Leftovers, defensive EVs and Toxic, Recover, Taunt, Ingrain and/or Detect might allow Nue to perform as a Toxic Staller by taking advantage of her base Speed for attacking first, but such moveset has yet to be tested].

Nue will appreciate the company of any Puppets that can deal with those pesky Steels that wall can her and those Mana Burst users that seem to be way too common.
On the other hand, you can use Puppets weak to Earth and Nature to attract opposing Puppets with those moves, only to switch Nue in for her to take the now ineffective attacks, and take the opportunity to set up.
As for specific Puppets who can work well along Nue, right now I can only think on Technical Toyohime, who can hit Steel and Reason-types hard with STAB Earth Power and Shadow Ball respectively, while encouraging your opponent to bring out his/her Puppets with Nature attacks.

As stated before, Steel-type resists both Nue's STABs so most Puppets with that typing can take advantage of it, especially the defensive ones who might be able to survive a Selfdestruct, which is the next move they should expect from Nue, besides of a switch out.
Then, even with her impressive Speed, Nue is still vulnerable Blade Flash and Ice Shard, so pretty much any Puppet with an outstanding Atk/Sp.Atk and access to those moves should scare her off, unless she is running Quick Attack and the opposing Puppet it at risk of being heavily damaged by the move.
Specifically, Youki and Youmu forms are excellent Nue counters, since they have STAB Blade Flash, resistance to Nue's STABs, and immunity to both Selfdestruct and Heart Break; Youmu and Youki stand out since the former has 120 base Attack to deal powerful Blade Flashes, and the latter has a higher base Speed than Nue and even higher base Attack than Youmu, which means that with a proper investment on Speed he should be able to outspeed Nue and hit with an stronger Battle Chant or Drawn Line.
Advent Cirno and Advent Letty are another remarkable counters, who are Steel type, have access to Ice Shard, and have a nice 125 and 115 base Atk respectively to support the move.

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