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Topics - DoctorShanks

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Movesets / Speed Cirno
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:29:35 PM »

Speed Cirno
Type: Ice/Water
Abilities: Vital Spirit or Guts
Base Stats:
HP: 75
Atk: 90
Def: 80
SpAtk: 95
SpDef: 40
Speed: 120

Greetings everyone, and happy Cirno day! Today, I wanna show you guys one of the >coolest and most underrated status absorbers in the game.

Speed Cirno doesn't really look like much, especially with a mediocre offensive presence with her 90 base Atk stat. Fortunately for her, it's the ability that really sells for Speed Cirno; the choice between Vital Spirit and Guts allows her to function as a dangerous Sleep or Status absorber. The choice between Speed Cirno's two abilities really comes down to your team's needs, but no matter what is chosen, she does a really good job at making your opponent think twice before using a status move, provided that she has been revealed to your opponent.

Playing Speed Cirno requires a lot of experience and practice (knowing when and when not to switch in); she's incredibly frail, especially on the special side, so a timely prediction by your opponent can quickly spell the end of your status absorber. If you are able to play around Speed Cirno's faults, however, she could end up being exactly what you were looking for.

Choice Banded Status Sponge
Speed Cirno @ Special Bloomers
Ability: Vital Spirit / Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SpDef
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Ice Ball
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Double-Edge / Superpower / Thunderpunch

Speed Cirno is a puppet that performs comfortably well in the lead position, as she is able to shut down the strategies of things like HypnoBellyPass Mamizou or even Speed Shizuha, and force them out on turn 1. She is unfortunately forced out on turn 1 by faster leads and anti-leads such as Advent Marisa or Advent Reisen, though. Speed Cirno just doesn't hit hard enough on her lonesome, so the Special Bloomers helps out with this. A Choice Item nets Speed Cirno KOs (and 2HKOs) she otherwise would not be able to achieve, such as 252HP/0Def Speed Medicine without the need for setting up.

The choice between abilities boils right down to your team's needs. Vital Spirit allows her to lead on, or to switch in on common leads that carry Sleeping moves, and immediately threaten the opposition with her incredible neutral coverage backed up by a Choice Item. No matter what switches in, you now have a good deal of information about your opponent's team and what they intend to use to counter Speed Cirno, especially since the amount of puppets that resist Ice are incredibly slim, being limited to opposing Water and Ice types, the latter of which is a very rare type. Guts, on the other hand, allows Cirno to be kept hidden in the back until your opponent reveals something that can threaten a Burn or a Toxic, and allows Cirno to play at what is essentially +2 attack for the rest of the game, potentially giving her the ability to set up a late-game sweep.

Ice Ball and Waterfall are Speed Cirno's go-to STAB moves. Ice Ball is a bit stronger and has a chance to lower Defense, while Waterfall has a very useful Flinch chance backed by Speed Cirno's amazing Speed stat. Poison Jab is used to threaten opposing Water-types who would otherwise Wall Cirno's STAB combination. Lastly, Superpower prevents Speed Cirno from being walled by Attack Komachi, and hits opposing Heart-types really hard, however, Double-Edge can be used in this slot to punish Faith-types looking to tank a possible Waterfall, such as Byakuren or Shingyoku-M. Thunderpunch is an option for those who really, really need some kind of way to tickle Helper Eirin (note that it's still only a 2HKO with Guts and Bloomers).

The EVs look really simple, but they take advantage of everything Speed Cirno has going for it. Max Attack and Speed allow her to hit as hard as possible when backed by the multipliers of Band and possibly Guts, while Max Speed lets her tie with opposing base 120's like Speed Youmu or Ran, and allows her to outspeed neutral Youki, Advent Marisa, or Lyrica.

Speed Cirno @ Lum Berry / Leftovers / Thick Fur
Ability: Vital Spirit / Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SpDef
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Ice Ball
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Tailwind

Tailwind trades the immediate power that the Special Bloomers would otherwise provide for the ability to set up a late-game win condition that either cannot be put to sleep or cannot be harmed by status, and can actually switch moves during her sweep. Lum Berry should be used alongside Vital Spirit to prevent harmful status like Paralysis from getting in the way, and Leftovers should be considered when playing with Guts to allow her to offset the potential Burn or Poison damage that she would otherwise be dealing with. Thick Fur is useable on both sets to boost Ice Ball's damage output.

The EVs given are standard, but are slightly more customize-able in this case. You could carefully pull EVs out of Speed or Attack if you know what you're doing, but keep in mind that maximum Attack and Speed are used to expand on the multipliers that Speed Cirno uses (Tailwind and Guts).

Other Options
Speed Cirno can run a Special set, but her options are incredibly lacking, consisting of Surf, Ice Beam, and Nature Power, the latter of which could be useful for surprising Toyohime, but it's still only a 3HKO on 252HP Chiyuri. Speed Cirno has Endure, which could be useful for proccing a Liechi or Petaya Berry, but you have to commit to Vital Spirit in this case. Her supportive options include stuff like Taunt and Rain Dance, which could give her a role as a suicide lead of sorts. Lastly, Speed Cirno has access to Aqua Jet and Ice Shard, but they don't hit very hard when backed by her low Attack Stat.

A Speed Cirno who has set up has very few hard counters, but most of the game's famous S/A Rank physical walls can stand up to her blows. Water-types have the best shot at walling Speed Cirno.

The top two counters are Chiyuri and Helper Eirin. Chiyuri can come in, get a free Intimidate, and threaten a Paralysis on either the Vital Spirit or Guts variant with very little fear of damage. Chiyuri can then 2HKO back with Mana Burst if SCirno stays in for some reason. Helper Eirin takes miniscule damage even from a +1 Guts-boosted Speed Cirno, and can OHKO back with Poison Bomb.

Murasa forms can take a shot at walling Speed Cirno before it sets up, but they must be wary of Double-Edge. More unconventional options include Byakuren, DIchirin, Orange, Yoshika, DHina/Yuugenmagan, but Speed Cirno can use most of them as set-up bait. If Speed Cirno has not set up a Tailwind or is playing with the Special Bloomers set, then she can be revenged by the many number or puppets who happen to be faster than her. While Speed Cirno does have access to priority moves in Aqua Jet and Ice Shard, they don't hit hard enough to be anything to worry about.

General Metagame / Doubles ladder?
« on: January 20, 2014, 02:48:21 AM »
Something I (and hopefully others) have been interested in as of late have been Double Battles. It's been around for a while, it has started being played by competitive communities recently (Smogon), and it is a nice change of pace from Singles. Puppets and strategies that see little use in Standard might really shine in Doubles. What I'm requesting here is a simple Doubles ladder/rule-set that we can click and enjoy, with a reset ban-list(?) bar the Cross puppets, and maybe some important bug fixes provided that they aren't too time consuming to fix (Guard is a big one, as is Lightningrod).

Of course, I'm talking as though Doubles hasn't been a thing since the server began. Doubles is there, but it's incomplete with certain things not working, some being a bigger deal than others:

-Cancel Button*****************
-Lightningrod (are there any other abilities besides this that don't exactly work?)
-New puppets are sent out immediately after a puppet faints or after a "Spread move" finishes hitting all targets.
-Hyper Voice? (How does it work on Shoddy?)
-Transform, Recollection, and Snatch might want to see a bit of use? Not sure about this either.

Would you play it? Support? Thoughts? Speculation? Theorymoning?

ROM Hacks + General Discussion / RNG manipulation thread
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:19:55 PM »
I should also post here, for those interested, that I've started to RNG abuse wilds on 1.812 official.

I promised that I would post a guide soon. So I guess I'll get on that someday. When I do, I'll have edited the OP of this thread.

Movesets / Yuki
« on: August 19, 2013, 03:06:25 AM »

Type: Fire
Abilities: Intimidate or Blaze
Base Stats
HP: 95
Atk: 80
Def: 30
SpAtk: 115
SpDef: 95
Spd: 110

Yuki has one job: to be one of the most dangerous and fear-inducing fire-type users in this game. While her Speed and Special Attack are noticeably lower compared to gems such as Speed Utsuho, and Speed Flandre, Yuki manages to carve herself a niche as being an incredibly destructive Anti-lead or revenge killer. But how does Yuki even manage to out-perform Speed Utsuho and Speed Flandre? Well, look no further than Eruption. That's right, Yuki is but one of the few puppets in the game with access to this all-powerful, devastatingly-destructive excuse for a move. At full health, Eruption has an astonishing base power of 150, which is the equivalent of 225 base power after the STAB bonus. And if you choose to run the Gothic Outfit on her, that's another 20% boost on top of that.

Yuki is not without her problems, however. Firstly, her move-pool is about as barren as her Fan-base. Secondly, her Defense stat leaves something to be desired. Unfortunately for Yuki, her base speed is an above-average-at-best 110, and while that's still an incredible number, she is outpaced by the enormous amount of base 120's that reside in this game. Lastly, Yuki desperately relies on her having full HP in order to perform to her maximum potential. Should you manage to play Yuki properly around her strengths and weaknesses, she will absolutely not disappoint you.

Yuki @ Salac Berry/Gothic Outfit
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SpAtk
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk) / Modest nature (+SpAtk,-Atk)
- Eruption
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Sunny Day
- Shadow Ball/Solarbeam

This set in particular has multiple functions. As previously mentioned, Eruption is incredibly destructive, so destructive that even puppets who normally resist Fire will feel the burn of a full-HP Eruption. The choice between Flamethrower and Fire Blast is up to whether you prefer more accuracy or power respectively. Sunny Day is a neat tool to have, even though Sunny Day+Solarbeam doesn't quite work yet in the simulator. Ideally, you would use Sunny Day when you manage to gain a free turn to use it, and depending on the match-up, you would throw off the appropriate move, or switch out to something else that can clear the target you're faced with (for Sunny-Beaming, knowing your opponent's team later in the game helps tremendously). Lastly, Shadow Ball is recommended in the last slot for now because Ghost-types are very common be in this game. Just note that a Sun/Blaze boosted Fire-type move is going to be more powerful than a Super-effective Shadow Ball assuming your opponent isn't named Attack Murasa.

It is important to keep in mind that Yuki's Eruption is only more powerful than Flamethrower at 200+ HP, and is only more powerful than Fire Blast at 266+ HP with this EV spread (332 HP). When playing around with Sunny Day, should you be forced to switch out in the face of a Water or Earth-type, Chlorophyll abusers such as Attack Minoriko or Technical Medicine make great team mates that can abuse the sunlight.

In regards to Nature, Ability, and Item choice, Timid is my recommendation to get all the pre-Salac speed she can get, but with Modest you can still out-speed base 95's that are fully invested in speed. Blaze is a no-brainer, as Yuki would be considered the worst Intimidator in this game due to her poor Defense stat. The Salac Berry seems to be the best item choice, as when the Salac Berry activates, then that means Blaze is active too. A Blaze-boosted Flamethrower in the sun is more powerful than Eruption itself, and a Blaze boosted Fire Blast without the sun is also more powerful than Eruption. Therefore, this Yuki build makes her dangerous whether she's at Full HP, or on her last legs.

Yuki @ Salac (Spe) Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk) / Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Blaze Kick/Fire Punch
- Earthquake

This one is essentially the same thing as Bellyzard, only without the crippling weakness to that one entry hazard which just so happens to NOT be in this game. Due to the fact that only a fresh Yuki can ever dream to pull this off, she works well in the lead spot. However, if your opponent's lead is commonly known to carry Roar or Whirlwind, then Yuki is pretty much forced to switch out as she will be unable to complete the required set-up. Otherwise, get Yuki in on something that cannot attack, or on the Revenge Kill versus something that Yuki can out-pace. In a perfect world, Yuki sets up her substitute while taking no damage, and then sets up her Belly Drum on the turn where her Substitute is inevitably broken. If Yuki manages to pull that off, then her Attack stat skyrockets to 1036 (with a Jolly nature), and her Salac Berry and Blaze ability both activate simultaneously. If your opponent isn't packing Priority of any kind, then Yuki is free to go on her little rampage, sweeping through unprepared teams effortlessly. This Yuki usually ends up being Dead-weight if she fails her mission, only being able to revenge kill slower and weakened threats at best.

Other Options
She learns Roar, but there's no reason for her to run it, as she preys on puppets that don't pose a threat to her. Lava Plume has an increased Burn chance if you're into that sort of thing, but the power loss over Flamethrower or Fire Blast is noticeable after all of Yuki's Fire multipliers are in play. Dark Pulse is too weak for Yuki to make any use of; whatever it hits (for more damage than her Fire moves) is usually something she can't OHKO after Spikes, and is usually something you'll want to switch out of. While I haven't tested it yet, Quick Attack might be useful somewhere on the Belly Drum set to counter priority users (perhaps over Substitute?), but it's still incredibly weak, even at +6.

Yuki is similar to Speed Utsuho in the sense that they're both Fire-Types, have access to Blaze, and are both rather destructive. However, Speed Utsuho has more Speed and Special Attack, as well as a wider move-pool for coverage. If you're looking for something that's a little easier to use with arguably more reliability and is a bit less gimmicky, try out Speed Utsuho instead.

Team Options
Yuki loves her HP stat for both the Eruption and Belly Drum sets. As a result, Rapid Spin support is much appreciated. As previously mentioned, having a puppet in the back who can abuse the Sunlight in place of Yuki isn't a bad idea either. Just about any Chlorophyll puppet can fill this role, but I personally adore Attack Minoriko, Speed Shizuha, and Aki Sisters the most. If Yuki gets badly damaged or status'd before she completes her job, then she will really appreciate Clerical support to bounce back in. Luize, Advent Alice, or Technical Luna Child seem to fill the role of a Cleric rather nicely.

*At present, anything that normally fears Solarbeam from Yuki, one such example being Technical Toyohime, should really have nothing to worry about. As previously stated, SunnyBeam does not work in Shoddy at the moment. The worst thing that can happen is that Yuki predicts your switch and charges a Solarbeam in the process.

Not knowing which set Yuki is running can be fatal if Yuki is being played by skilled hands.

Fire is resisted by four Types: Faith, Water, Earth, and Fire itself. As a result, both sets are rather easily countered. However, Water and Earth-types that are predicted to come in might provoke the Eruption Yuki to preemptively set up a Sunny Day for the purpose of Solar Beam. Otherwise, puppets that resist or absorb Fire are generally complete stops to Yuki, and believe me, this list is long. Shingyoku-F and Sariel laugh off every single attack thrown at them, and each can use Yuki to set up Calm Minds. Tenma is a great counter in Ubers as she stops both sets cold with her typing and stats alone. Priority users in general shut down the Belly Drum set, as do users of Whirlwind or Roar.

Suggestions/improvements/criticism/nitpicking is appreciated

Movesets / Please read before posting a thread in this section.
« on: August 16, 2013, 03:33:12 AM »
Well, I mean, don't read all of it if you don't want to. But hopefully I can manage to leave you with a general understanding of the guidelines I'd like to impose here.

First and foremost, this isn't meant to discourage anyone from posting here, but I feel like this is going to be a very important section of the forums later, even more-so than it is now. With that in mind, I would much prefer to see more detailed and professionally written threads and opinions with MUCH less controversy/arguing. Thus, I have chosen to impose some rules and recommendations, as well as do's and don'ts when posting a thread in this section. I've been putting this off for a while, but I feel like the longer I wait, then the more cleaning up that'll need to be done.

Table of Contents (CTRL+F):

1.0: Basic writing techniques
2.0: Posting Etiquette
3.0: What I'm doing with this place
4.0: How do I write-up?
4.1: Style and Format
4.2: Bold, Underline, and Italics
4.3: Researching
4.3.1: Ask others!
4.3.2: Damage calculator and percentage calculator
4.4: Testing
4.5: Explanations
4.6: Time and Effort
5.0: Counters
6.0: Closing

1.0 Basic writing techniques (off the top of my head)

So, you want to be a writer? I know I do; my writing skill is only based off of what I've learned in High School and the internet. In the meantime, I pretend to be a good writer with write-ups such as this. But enough about me. I try my best to keep the following points in mind when I write things.

- If it takes an hour to write, it's not going to take an hour to read.

Exactly this. If you spend an hour writing something, it's only going to take someone else a few minutes to read. Don't let this discourage you, though. After all, it's not like there's only going to be one person reading this.

- Just because it looks good to you doesn't mean it looks good to everyone else.

Something else to keep in mind, and it's very relevant to this section. There are some threads here that are very hard to read, and very hard to follow as well. This leads to disinterest and disappointment. Spend some time to pretty up your write-up.

If you're not sure, try getting someone else to proofread it alongside you. Whether it be a family member or a friend. Worst case scenario is that the members of the forum make nitpicks at it and ask you to edit small parts of it. You could also try reading it as though you were reading it as someone else with an entirely different mindset, but that's tough to do.

- When you're done, read the whole thing again.

You've just finished throwing together a nice wall of text; one of the worst thing you can do at this point is publish it, as what you have written at this point is essentially a "rough copy." Instead, read it again to make sure that the text flows nicely. If the text doesn't flow nicely, edit some parts of it, and then roll out the "Final Copy." When you're happy with what you've made, and if you think others will be happy with it, then publish it.

Some English teachers recommend that you make a "Good Copy," which is in-between Rough and Final, but for a forum post, this is entirely optional.

- Don't write "facts" without being absolutely sure that you're right

If, for example, you are claiming that the puppet you are writing about can take on a certain threat, some people might ask you for a damage calculation and/or a list of ideal scenarios. If you do your research beforehand, and you know that you're right, then only post your proof if you think it will be beneficial to the write-up.

-Write in a Mature and Professional tone

It's okay to throw around a random gag here and there, but please try to maintain a professional tone while writing sets. A professionally-sounding write-up is much easier to take seriously than one with supposed "jokes" thrown around every other sentence.


If you're going to post a write-up here, or even an ordinary post here, or if you're not very confident with your English-speaking abilities, then run it through a spell-check. If it's not perfect, then either me or Doesnt will take some time to fix it up eventually. If your post is an absolute mess, then I will tag it with a question mark "Message Icon" and I may or may not put a (WIP) tag in the subject (see: 3. What I'm doing with this place). Don't view this as a punishment, though, and don't feel pressured to fix it right away if you're busy. Remember, it is extremely unlikely that we will be deleting anything posted here.

I'll be adding more to this section when things cross my mind, or if people ask me to. I'll try to keep it to suggestions relating only to this forum.

2.0 Posting Etiquette

This is easy. Constructive criticism, approval posts, and suggestions are welcomed. However, shaming, pointing fingers, and immature arguing is certainly not welcomed. If things turn sour, clear your head and try again later.

If a set was poorly written, it will be dealt with via tagging so that way the OP see that something needs fixing (see: 3. What I'm doing to this place). If you see something that you don't agree with regarding a write-up, you may instead question the OP about their decision.

3.0 What I'm doing with this place

At the time of posting, most write-ups posted here are ideal, while there are also a fair amount that are, well, less-than-ideal. If by any chance we end up moving these sets over to the wiki, then we are going to want them to be as well written as possible. Not perfect, but well done at the very least. This is half the reason I've decided to start writing this. It's a small step, but hopefully one in the right direction. The "things" that I will be doing are as follows.

-Threads that seem unfinished or are missing some crucial information will have a (WIP) tag at the end of it.

-Oddly written threads will be tagged with a question mark message icon, usually followed with a questioning sort of post by me shortly after. (New threads only)

-I was thinking of rewarding approved threads with maybe a Thumbs Up message icon, but I can't "approve" anything on my lonesome.

These tags aren't really a full solution, since people can just edit their own threads and remove them. But the point of these tags is to notify the OP that they dun goofed somewhere in their write-up, and personally removing them on their own without any other changes to their thread will earn them a stern talking-to.

Ideally, in bizarro universe, where these sets were going to be imported to the wiki in the future, the Thumbs up'd threads would be ideal for moving to the site. Smogon usually does three(?) approval and grammar checks by the C&C mods before moving sets "on site." I'd prefer not to copy, but it's a dang good system in my opinion.

4.0 How do I write-up?

If you stare at Notepad long enough, words will magically appear. One of two things happen: you either start the first sentence of your Overview then continue to write without thinking, or you realize that you are suffering from writer's block. You need to be inspired before you can write. You're doing it right when an hour feels like 5 minutes.

Sort-of-joking aside, just do your best and please, for the love of god, do not half-ass it. If you don't want to write, don't feel like you have to. If you're not a good writer but still want to write, make sure your readers understand that.

4.1 Style and Format

Sometimes people want to be unique, but in this case, you might get better reviews for copying a format that everyone knows and loves. The Smogon forums style works just fine, as well as most of the styles used here. DoesntKnowHowToPlay's style is a very attractive one to follow in my opinion. My style changes whenever I realize I do something dumb or something visually unattractive with it (I'll go back and change my old threads, I promise), so I don't know if I recommend following mine. The point is, as long as it's visually attractive and easy to navigate, then chances are it's a good format.

Move-set format is something I'd like to keep common throughout all threads if possible. The format used by Shoddy Touhoumon is the one that should be used to avoid confusion or alienation. Here is an example of the Shoddy format:

Mimi-chan (M) @ Lum (All) Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Explosion
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash

By default (as far as I know), the moves are listed in alphabetical order. I'd recommend shuffling the moves in order from most important at the top to least important at the bottom. The (M/F) indicates whether the puppet is Yin or Yang, and can be removed in all cases (Mimi-chan is usually gender-less, but that hasn't been fixed in Shoddy yet). Lastly, if there are other viable moves that need to be listed, you can divide a less-important move with a "/" to imply that the move is interchangeable. Lastly, add a basic name for the set that details its role (you can have fun with this). After implementing of all these changes, it looks something like this:

Revenge Killer
Mimi-chan @ Lum (All) Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Explosion
- Double-Edge/Poison Jab

Flare Blitz is Mimi-chan's most important move because it gets the STAB bonus off of it. Head Smash is an Earth-type move generally used for coverage, and is entirely necessary. Explosion helps Mimi-chan erase serious threats as a last resort. Double-Edge is a Beast-Type move, and as such, it only nets SE damage versus Faith and Ghost types. Poison Jab can be used over Double-Edge if it's team needs something to revenge kill Star Sapphire or Defense Kaguya.

And that's that! Simple, and easy to read, right? Not everyone might agree, but it's a universal format that's generally accepted around here. It's also one that I want to enforce for simplicity's sake.

4.2 Bold, Underline, and Italics

This helps to make certain sections of your write-up to stand out. If you view most threads here (before my mass edit, of course), you'll see that any Overviews, Sets, Other Options, Team Options and Counters sections are Bolded so the reader can skip right down to the information they want to know in an instant. Without this bolding, the reader would otherwise have to skim&scan, or CTRL+F for certain words/sections, which the reader should not have to do.

Underlining and Italicizing are rare. I used to Underline my set names, but it looks rather unattractive in my opinion. Italicizing is cool when you want to make words stand out, but I highly doubt that's a rule in the English rule book. It's cool, either way, but in might not be considered cool in 10 years.

4.3 Researching

For starters, you should never have to write the word "probably" in a situation like this. If you ever catch yourself writing the "P word," go find out the answer to your question. For example, saying a puppet is "Probably" going to OHKO this puppet with a certain move, unless "probably" means you already know for sure that there's a 70% chance of an OHKO, then you should probably go run it through a damage calculator just to be sure, so you can remove the "P word" and state these simple facts that you now know the answer to.

Not all research needs to be posted. If you know a puppet is going to OHKO a puppet with a certain move, and you've ran it through a calculator, then the odds are that you don't need to post it, and people will take your word for it. If said move can only OHKO said puppet after a layer of Spikes, then you should DEFINITELY mention that.

I'm sorry but I can't think of other examples. I guess another example would be mentioning Ellen has a SpAtk stat of 90 because that's what you know off the top of your head, when in reality, Ellen actually has a SpAtk stat of 100. If you're not 100% sure of something, go and make yourself 100% sure.

4.3.1 Ask Others!

Sometimes, asking others about their experiences with your puppet can open yourself up to entirely different play-styles with the puppet that you're writing about. Once in a while, I'll drop a line in Shoddy saying "Hey, does anyone have any notable experiences using (puppet)? How would you guys rate her?"

4.3.2 Damage Calculator and Percentage calculator

Damage Calculator specifically tailored for Touhoumon.

For reference, these are the calculators I use when I'm trying to figure out how much damage an attack will do, and what % of the puppet's health will be drained. I like to round down for Minimum damage, and round up for Maximum damage when calculating percentages.

4.4 Testing

Obviously, testing your set is crucial before you post it. Basic testing is usually not enough, and in most cases, more serious testing, as well as more serious research is required. Using a puppet once is not enough testing. Using a puppet three times is not enough testing. What is enough testing, is using the puppet enough times, with enough successes and failures to be able to give a valid opinion on it.

Sometimes, people will join the server and use one of their favorite Touhous in their main team for a long time. Should they decide to write about it, they may or may not have extensive knowledge about not just the puppet, but how the entirety of the game is played. With that in mind, basic knowledge on competitive Pokémon itself is a requirement on its own. You don't have to be a professional, you just have to know the absolute basics, be aware of what is considered a good play and a bad play, and be aware that your opponent is an actual person rather than an in-game trainer.

4.5 Explanations

You can't just write a set and say "she's really good she helped my team a lot you should try her" and leave it at that; the average critical thinker will question the hell out of your statement.

Overviews are optional, but they're really cool for explaining a puppet's strengths, weaknesses, and roles before you move down to the sets and everything else. In my eyes, it's a reassurance that the OP knows what they're talking about.

Explain everything else in full and clear detail while you're at it. Sets like to know why they have their moves, their item, their EV spread, and their Ability. Explain other cool looking moves in another section, usually titled Other Options. And lastly, Counters, in some cases, requires reasons as to why certain puppets are considered counters for your puppet (See: 5.0 Counters). Obvious counters can be listed at the beginning or end (things like, "Steel-types scare off the Dark-type" and such), and more in-depth counters and checks usually require a little more explanation.

4.6 Time and Effort

For reference, at this point, I am eight hours into this write-up, and I am only half-way done. What I want to say here, is that if you put the time and effort into your writing, there's a much greater chance that you and your readers will be happy with the outcome. Youki, Attack Utsuho, Chen, Attack Kazami, Defense Hina, Chiyuri, Momiji, Rikako, Kyouko, Advent Reisen, Reisen, Yumemi, and even Tori and Ruukoto were each all day jobs for me. I am very happy with the outcomes with all of them, and they have all received positive feedback.

5.0 Counters

When people look at threads posted here, some of them are interested in how to use the puppet, while others are interested in how to counter the puppet. Ideally, you should be appealing to both audiences, or they might leave disappointed with what you've written, or in this case, what hasn't been written.

A neutral mindset is wonderful. Sure, you can use personal pronouns here and there, but try to cover the good, the bad, and the ugly while you're writing about a Puppet; the ugly, in this case, would be the counters (at least, from the writer's perspective). Counters can be obvious, they can be kept simple, or you can go in deep detail as to why an unlikely puppet is actually a complete stop to your puppet. Chances are, you've tested your puppet enough to know what scares it off. Keep in mind that when writing your Counters, that you should write it from the opponent's point of view, and write things that they want to hear. For example, if you were writing about Gentetsu, the readers might like to hear "Gengetsu stands absolutely no chance against Speed Youmu (reasoning follows)."

What most people like to see is specific puppets, rather than types, being listed as counters. A certain puppet being listed as a counter sounds much safer and more attractive than an entire type being listed as a counter.

*Edit @ August 16th, 2013: Do your Counters section LAST, and list them in detail at the END of your write-up. That way, when people only want to view the Counters to your puppet, they can scroll to the bottom of the page and find their counters without trouble.

6.0 Closing

I understand that this may be seen as long overdue to some, as this forum has been self-moderated by the posters for quite some time, up until it became more active here. Again, this post isn't meant to discourage anyone from writing for Move-sets; if you make a few mistakes, they'll usually be edited and shrugged off. If you bomb it, I'll try to help out with un-bombing it. I have no intentions of deleting any threads here.

Movesets / Attack Utsuho
« on: June 16, 2013, 02:23:38 AM »

Attack Utsuho
Type: Fire/Flying
Abilities: Blaze or Fire Veil
Base Stats
HP: 80
Atk: 70
Def: 65
Spd: 90
SpAtk: 170
SpDef: 65


Scroll back up and look at her Base Stats again. Yes, Attack Utsuho is dangerous, and even more dangerous in the right hands. When Attack Utsuho enters the fray, something usually dies. At first her base 90 speed doesn't look like it helps much, but upon further inspection, it's just enough to outpace everything at +1. Her 80/65/65 bulk usually allows her to take a neutral hit or even an unSTABed super-effective hit from most puppets, which most of the time ends up activating her Blaze ability. With the combination of Blaze and a menacing Special Attack stat of, and let me remind you, 170, tends to make sure that Attack Utsuho is going to be dishing out a lot of damage during her stay.

Unfortunately, Attack Utsuho has quite a number of flaws despite how scary she seems to be. Firstly, her Move Pool is about as barren as her fanbase. Another issue, one that she shares with Attack Flandre, is that none of her moves have a 100% accuracy rate (well, not the good ones anyway...). She, like other Special Attackers, is considered set-up bait by some (not many) special walls. Her moves have low PP, leaving her to be often pressurized by Sariel and Shingyoku-F. Lastly, her Super-effective type coverage is only average at best. While Fire is a great offensive type, it is easily walled by having four resistances against it. Please don't let these flaws discourage you from using her though, as her raw firepower is a huge threat to just about any team in existence.

I hope you have as much fun reading this as I did writing it. I learned so much about Attack Utsuho that I did not know previously.

Attack Utsuho @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SpAtk
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk) / Modest nature (+SpAtk,-Atk) / Hasty nature (+Spd,-Def) / Mild nature (+SpAtk,-Def)
-Fire Blast
-Air Slash
-Energy Ball / Explosion

Attack Utsuho sparks panic and fear in the souls of puppets and trainers alike, causing over-predictions and misplays to happen at least once on average during her stay. Fire Blast and Air Slash are just about the only moves worth using from her offensive move pool, and Energy Ball discourages Advent Alice and Defense Parsee from switching in, but it can be replaced by Explosion if a 75% accuracy rating isn't your cup of tea (just be sure to change your nature to one that lowers Defense instead, and replace the 4 HP EVs with Atk EVs instead). The icing on the cake is Endure, of course, and this is where things gets interesting...

Endure is Attack Utsuho's last stand. In a situation where a faster opposing puppet without priority or set-up moves could end Attack Utsuho's stay in the battle that turn, that's when you hit Endure. Attack Utsuho survives with 1 HP, while simultaneously proccing her Salac Berry as well as her Blaze boost.

If this is pulled off, all hell is unleashed. Any team that has neglected to prepare for any kind of Fire-type onslaught, whether it be through priority moves or Specially Defensive Earth-types, is effectively torn to shreds. Game over.

The choice of nature really only depends on what you want out of your Attack Utsuho. Timid And Hasty allow you to tie with the other myriad of base 90s and outpace the 85s and 80s, most of which are likely to 2HKO you, but after the Salac boost, the extra speed is wasted. Modest and Mild on the other hand give you a more menacing 482 Special Attack along with a 279 base Speed, which is just enough speed to outpace every puppet in the game after the Salac Berry has kicked in. Use Modest/Timid when dealing with Energy Ball, and use Mild/Hasty when dealing with Explosion. Some might argue it's better to run Naive/Rash when going with Explosion, but I'm not so sure myself.

Endure? Aint nobody got time for that.
Attack Utsuho @ Gothic Outfit / Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze / Fire Veil
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spe/252 SpAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd,-Def) / Mild nature (+SpAtk,-Def)
-Fire Blast
-Air Slash
-Energy Ball

I don't see any reason not to simply run four attacks on Attack Utsuho. Included are the only four offensive moves ever worth using with Attack Utsuho, along with an Item and Ability choice. I personally recommend Gothic Outfit with Blaze for the extra firepower that it provides, but Salac Berry is there too if you're feeling lucky. Fire Veil is cool too sometimes if you need something to switch in on Sakuya's World (keep in mind that Sculpture is a 2HKO, and that you're slower), but there are other puppets for that role.

One thing I should note is that this variant works especially well as a Baton Pass recipient from Speed Aya Lily Black. In this case, go equipped with a Mild nature, a Gothic Outfit, and the Blaze ability. Try to get Attack Utsuho in on something she resists (or not, if you're trying to proc Blaze).

Something else to note is that her Explosion isn't very powerful either. An Attack stat of 177 isn't much to go on, so it's only meant to be used to go out with a bang.

Other Options

Sunny Day, perhaps? She has access to Solarbeam, but as far as I'm aware, Sunny Day+Solarbeam is bugged on Pokémon Lab at the moment. Sunny Day is really pushing your luck, but I don't see why it wouldn't work on a sun team. Blast Burn is only 30BP stronger than Fire Blast after STAB, and can only really be used once before being forced to switch out unless you're running White Herb, which uses up her item slot.

Air Slash and why it's actually important

Air Slash blows (Pun very much intended), but here are the calculations of the puppets worth using it on over Fire Blast because I'm a baller. The following calculations are done with a Timid Attack Utsuho.

Timid 252 SpAtk Attack Utsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP Rin: 86.4 ~ 103.9%
(Better OHKO chance after Spikes damage)
Timid 252 SpAtk Attack Utsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP Defense Keine: 70.2 ~ 82.6%
(Can threaten Paralysis on the retaliation)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP/4 SpDef Kanako: 76.9 ~ 90.3%
(Modest Thunderbolt has a 42% chance to OHKO. Switch out.)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 4 HP Kasen: 90.6 ~ 106.5%
(Clean OHKO chance after Spikes damage)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP/252 SpDef Calm Defense Sunny Milk: 56.6 ~ 66.5%
(Even if she tried to set up on you, a Critical hit ignores Mana Charge boosts. It's still quite the gamble)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP/252 SpDef Calm Star Sapphire: 50.7% ~ 59.6%
(2HKO/Surf won't OHKO back at +0)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP Helper Star Sapphire: 95 ~ 111.7%
(Clean OHKO after Spikes/Often OHKO without)
Timid 252 SpAtk AUtsuho Air Slash vs. 252 HP Attack Star Sapphire: 95 ~ 111.7%
(Clean OHKO after Spikes/Often OHKO without. Cannot OHKO with Aqua Jet.)

As for everything else worth using Air Slash on, Attack Rin, Speed Rin, Sunny Milk, and Attack Sunny Milk are all OHKOed by it, but these puppets in particular have Flash Fire, so be on the lookout for them. Technical Sanae and Technical Shou cannot switch safely into Fire Blast without risking their lives (100% death rate with Spikes out), and their Surf and Thunderbolt respectively have less than a 50% OHKO chance (A damaged Utsuho is fair game, though). Attack Keine won't stomach an Air Slash, but Choiced variants of Attack Keine can revenge kill Attack Utsuho with Thunderpunch or Ice Punch. The rest, being Aki Sisters, Speed Shizuha, Attack Minoriko, and Technical Yuka, all pose no threat to Attack Utsuho.


Specially Defensive Demons seem to be the #1 way to deal with a Special Sweeper of such magnitude. 252 HP/252 SpDef Sariel is, without a doubt, the Gold Medalist when it comes to Attack Utsuho counters. Sariel can sponge literally everything Attack Utsuho throws at her as she resists three of her moves (Explosion included, which inflicts 59% max) and takes negligible damage from Air Slash. When Sariel is in, she has a free turn to use Calm Mind, and potentially give her opponent's team hell.

Tenma, like Sariel, doesn't fear any of Attack Utsuho's moves, and can use her as set-up bait for things like Spikes or even Mana Charge. Sendai doesn't mind Attack Utsuho either, and she's usually free to set up a Curse. Nitori has no problem with Fire Blast or Air Slash, and can use the free turn to set up a Rain Dance.

In regards to just flat out murdering Attack Utsuho, Murasa is a relatively safe switch-in that is immune to Explosion. She can switch in on a Fire Blast with her amazing special bulk and then threaten an Aqua Jet or Splashing. Futo is in the same boat, except she's totally immune to Fire Blast, and offensive Jolly Futos can out-speed Modest Attack Utsuhos and OHKO them with Waterfall (carry Aqua Jet in case of Endure). Technical Toyohime, Attack Patchouli, Chiyuri, and Defense Suwako are some more examples of Water-types who don't mind Fire and have a high Special Defense stat that Attack Utsuho might choose to explode on. Once Attack Utsuho has exploded, the counter has done its job of ridding the playing field of a heavily monstrous threat.

Movesets / Chen
« on: May 27, 2013, 04:47:32 AM »

Type: Beast
Abilities: Limber or Early Bird
Base Stats
HP: 80
Atk: 100
Def: 60
Spd: 130
SpAtk: 60
SpDef: 60

If you're looking for more offensive power over speed, then use Attack Chen, as she is essentially the same thing that trades 30 attack for 30 speed. In my opinion, Attack Chen is better used as a Tailwind user if your intention is to set it up or die trying. Using Tailwind on ordinary Chen is just a worthless bonus in my opinion. As a result, I'd prefer to use Chen solely as a revenge killer.

Her ability is a toss up. Personally, I prefer Early Bird over Limber, as it allows her to take a Sleep move and simultaneously activate sleep clause, then wake up whenever you want. I've never done that before, and I'll bet there are readers face-palming at how stupid I am right now for mentioning that. Limber is also great as well for taking paralysis aimed at other team mates.

Chen is an ordinary cat, and she behaves like one too; she's fast, she's weird, and she's super friggin annoying. The whole "9 lives" thing is bull shit, as Chen has terrible defenses, and suffers from a terrible mono-typing in Beast, which means that Chen is taking 2x damage from squirt guns, wild crows, and flamethrowers; much like ordinary cats. Her typing isn't doing her any favors offensively either. While her move-pool slightly remedies the coverage problem, they can be studied once, and then suddenly Chen is no longer a threat, as you'll realize that Chen has maybe 3 or 4 good attacking moves.

But obviously it's not all bad for Chen. Like all Beast-types out there, she's a Ghost buster, and she has just enough moves at her disposal to accomplish that. But the same can be said about almost any Beast. In the end, Chen is best used as a revenge killer, and while she doesn't seem too threatening at first glance, a Double-Edge coming off a base attack stat of 100 under a Choice Ribbon really hurts. Get all of her counters out of the way, and Chen will have a field day.

Revenge Killer
Chen @ Special Bloomers/Choice Ribbon
Ability: Limber/Early Bird
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Slash/Double-Edge
- Soar
- Metal Claw
- Rock Bullet

With a Choice item, Chen's Attack and Speed stats reach 448 and 394 respectively, outpacing most puppets without a Speed Boost passed down to them. Double-Edge is the whole reason you're using Chen, as it provides Chen with the raw power it needs to tear through teams. Soar covers for Natures, and Metal Claw is your only weapon against Flyers. The last slot is completely up for grabs, and you should use whatever move out of Chen's move-pool that you think would benefit your team the most. Rock Bullet is listed as it does an okay amount of damage under a Choice item, and it could be used to clean up low HP sweepers under a Speed Boost. Very situational, though.

Other Options
All of Chen's remaining options work just as well in the final slot of the first set listed above. Cross Poison, Brick Break, and Heart Break could work depending on your team, but it should be noted that a STAB Double-Edge will hit harder neutrally than a Super-effective hit on any of the previously mentioned moves. Pursuit is a gimmicky option, but is still very worthy of mention. Fury Swipes is a desperate move that can break substitutes, but it is more often than not weaker than Slash and Double-Edge. Finally, Dig is a powerful Earth-type move that Chen has access to, but unfortunately, Dig is very exploitable, and more often than not she'll dig up only to find a bird waiting to pluck her out of the ground.

I suppose you could run Tailwind to screw with people who think you're running a Choice set. However, Attack Chen pulls off Tailwind much better in my opinion. The only thing that Tailwind Chen gets over Tailwind Attack Chen is Metal Claw, and that unfortunately does not OHKO most Flying-types at +1. The fact that Flyers are immune to Spikes does not help Chen's case.

If it doesn't resist Double-Edge, it is probably 2HKOed by it at best, and even if resisted, your switch-in is in for a rough ride. +1 Double-Edge is strong, and is not to be taken lightly. I hate to say it, but if Chen is rampaging, sometimes it's best to let a puppet die, and then revenge kill it with something like Mimi-chan, or just about any resistor in general.

Any Flying-type not named Tori is a counter to a Chen that is locked into a Beast move. The Utsuhos can switch in on Slash or Metal Claw, at which point Chen will most likely scurry away and tell it's master that there's a weird bird on their opponent's team that supposedly ate a sun god and is trying to destroy the world, and it needs to die NOW.
Wriggle can use Chen as set-up bait. Tenma, Aya, and Kaguya are some examples of defensive natures/flyers that can all out-heal Double-Edge. Finally, Kisume can threaten a Burn while taking minimal damage.

If Chen is locked into any other move, simply counter accordingly.

Movesets / Attack Kazami
« on: April 23, 2013, 07:27:47 PM »

Attack Kazami
Type: Nature/Flying
Abilities: Overgrow or Pressure
Base Stats
HP: 60
Atk: 125
Def: 65
Spd: 115
SpAtk: 110
SpDef: 65

We arrive at yet another puppet who has a very simplistic usage: that of a deadly Physical sweeper. I wish I could expand on it, but she's just so incredible that she hardly needs an explanation. Flying and Nature are great STABs to have with moderate coverage, and Earthquake makes an honest attempt to fill in the gaps.

She's good, but she's not great... I'll be totally honest with you as to why she isn't banned in the UU tier: Horrible Defensive typing with low defenses, her Speed falls just short of the magical 120 making her susceptible to revenge killing, and she's weak to the common Steel and Ice-types making her easily picked off by Blade Flash and Ice Shard. What this translates to is that she's not hard to down, and she therefore functions as a hit-and-run puppet. So if you use her to hit-and-run, and keep in mind of the puppets that you CAN'T outrun, then she should not disappoint.

Oh look, a Physical sweeper
Attack Kazami @ Special Bloomers / Camoflague / Airline Uniform / Salac Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Power Whip
- Soar
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch / Heart Break

When Attack Kazami gets the free turn it so desires, she can usually dish out a ton of hurt in the one turn she has of safety. The first three moves are staples, and the last one is up for grabs. Focus Punch nets a little more damage on Heart-type switch-ins + some others, but requires a lot of prediction to use. You can use Heart Break instead, but I don't recommend it as any puppet that is hit harder by Heart Break than Power Whip can and will end Attack Kazami's life before you can say "oops" (listed below).

Power Whip hits 180 BP after STAB, Soar hits 135 BP after STAB, and Earthquake hits 200 BP when landing Super effectively. Keep this in mind before attacking, and decide carefully whether to use Power Whip or an SE Earthquake if using the Special Bloomers. Remember that Overgrow powers up Power Whip even further when Attack Kazami is critical, putting Earthquake out of the job on anything that isn't Miasma or Fire.

Team options
As defenseless as Attack Kazami is, she has a 4x resistance to Nature and Beast, and an immunity to Earth. Technical Toyohime is a godlike team mate, as she takes all Ice, Wind, Steel, Miasma, and Fire typed attacks aimed at Attack Kazami, who takes all Nature type attacks aimed at Technical Toyohime in return. Kisume makes a nice partner too if you're looking for a Rapid Spinner. You can clip flyers with just about any Steel-type out there.

Other Options
Wriggle has the same typing, same ability, slightly better defenses, and learns Tailwind. You could try her if you were looking for something that could set up.

Other than what was listed, nothing much. There's Taunt for shutting down walls, so I guess that could go in the last slot if you're not using the Special Bloomers. Heart Break hurts the following for more damage than any of Attack Kazami's other moves: Attack Reimu, Attack Mystia, all Hatate forms, Rikako, Eirin, Attack Eirin, and Technical Yukari, but note that all of these puppets have little reason to fear Attack Kazami. A sky high Special Attack stat of 110 is also present, but its move-pool is rather bland, with only Hyper Beam, Frenzy Plant, Air Slash, Poison Bomb, Shadow Ball, and Sonicboom standing out. You could try it out for the element of surprise, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Any Super-effective Steel, Ice, Flying, Miasma, or Fire-typed move will spell doom for the frail Attack Kazami. Flying-type puppets are the best option considering Attack Kazami doesn't have a coverage move to deal with them reliably. The Aya forms fear none of Attack Kazami's moves with their unique typing, and can abuse the free turn they get to set up Spikes (Aya), net a free Speed Boost (SAya), or just kill her outright (TAya).

Remember that Attack Kazami has a base speed of 115, and is therefore easily revenge killed by a huge chunk of the list of 120's. She's paper thin, and is weak to Blade Flash. As deadly as she can be, she does not take hits.

Movesets / Defense Hina
« on: April 23, 2013, 05:18:21 PM »

Defense Hina
Type: Miasma
Abilities: Strange Mist or Levitate
Base Stats:
HP: 80
Atk: 70
Def: 135
Spd: 60
SpAtk: 75
SpDef: 70

"Rapid Spin... Spin... Hina! Spin!"

If this was your thought process, then we need to talk. However, you've still made a wise decision, as Defense Hina is one of the most respected and reliable users of Rapid Spin around. Physically Defensive, Immune to Poison, one single weakness to Reason, and levitating for some reason making her immune to Spikes entirely, Defense Hina is especially hard to take down, and it's even more difficult to stop her from doing her number one job: removing Spikes from your team. Besides spinning, Hina has other great enfeebling moves to work with such as Toxic, Pain Split, Will-o-Wisp, and Confuse Ray; all of which are great options for spreading misfortune to the enemy. With such great qualities, one would wonder why Defense Hina isn't everyone's Rapid Spinner of choice!

And then we arrive at the dreaded second paragraph where we talk about the puppet's flaws. First of all, Defense Hina has no method of reliable recovery, just like many other unfortunate walls out there. Secondly, her Mono-weakness to Reason isn't all sunshine and rainbows considering the popularity of Special Reason-types and Special Reason-typed moves themselves. Thankfully, these flaws are minor being easily resolved via team support, and as a result, Defense Hina is a solid choice for just about any team in need of a Spinner.

Rapid Spin
Defense Hina @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def,-Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Will-o-wisp
- Poison Bomb / Giga Drain
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower

Usage is simple: Come in on a Physical attacker, get rid of spikes, and if appropriate, use any of the other three moves listed. The choice between Toxic and Will-o-Wisp is up to you, but in my experiences, Physical attackers like to flee before they get hit by Will-o-Wisp, leaving you with a burned Special attacking opponent rather than a poisoned one (this is a big deal). Poison Bomb is STAB, and gets Water-types and others out of the way slowly but surely. Poison Bomb can be replaced with Giga Drain for a nice alternative recovery method while your opponent is suffering from Burn/Poison, and it scares off Technical Toyohime as an added bonus. Flamethrower or Fire Blast are mostly there so that Defense Hina isn't completely helpless against Steel-types, and they provide nice coverage on their own.

Team Options
Advent Alice is an outstanding team mate. She sponges any Reason-type attacks aimed at Defense Hina, and she can use the opportunity while she's out to throw up a Wish or Heal Bell. On the offensive, Speed Youmu or Youki have no problem sponging Reason-type moves and setting up Swords Dance/Tailwind.

I find that Defense Hina pairs off well with Dark-types too. Defense Hina has no problem taking Faith, Heart, and Physical Steel-typed attacks aimed at Dark-types. Just make sure you take note of what you're switching in to; for example, many puppets with Heart moves like to carry Reason moves for added coverage.

Other Options
There are quite a few moves that Defense Hina could make use of. There's Confuse Ray, Pain Split, Counter, Explosion, Knock Off, Surf, and Thunderbolt. Pain Split really catches my eye, but I personally am not a very good user of it. Hina's Attack and Special Attack stats aren't too far off, so Explosion doesn't seem like a bad option either. You could play around with the latter two moves if you wish to try any of these out.

As previously mentioned, Specially based Reason-type attacks are the bane of Defense Hina's existence. Powerful Reason sweepers like Advent Reisen, Rikako, and Yumemi tend to force out Defense Hina quite effortlessly. Steel-types are a given, as they're immune to poison and can Spin-block, but they must be wary of Flamethrower and Fire Blast. Keine and Speed Yorihime are two great Steel picks that prey on Defense Hina's weaker SpDef stat and can set up Calm Minds; if you can get either of those two in on Defense Hina while she's using Rapid spin, then her time in the fray would be wasted.

Movesets / Chiyuri
« on: April 22, 2013, 09:52:34 AM »

Type: Reason/Water
Abilities: Intimidate or Swift Swim
Base Stats:
HP: 90
Atk: 90
Def: 70
Spd: 80
SpAtk: 90
SpDef: 100

Chiyuri can do one of two things, both tasks of which are dependent on her choice of ability. Her first role is as a supporter being able to set up Spikes and spreading Paralysis for her team. Her second role is as a Swift Swim "Sweeper." While her role of Swift Swimming is outdone by Nitori, a puppet with a better typing and stat distribution, Chiyuri instead makes a home for herself in the lonely QQ tier, a place where Nitori and Attack Murasa are not allowed to (or simply refuse to) roam. That's not to say that Chiyuri is bad in Standard; in fact, Chiyuri can perform admirably with proper team support.

Chiyuri has a unique typing with a unique play style. She doesn't have a lot to choose from, but she has no reason to ask for more. With proper team mates, she can be that one puppet on your team that all of your opponents will want dead as soon as possible.

Chiyuri @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Hydro Pump/Mana Burst
- Roar/Mana Burst
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave

I'd like to hope that something like this would be straightforward. The EVs/Nature alongside Intimidate reduces the threat of Physical attackers significantly. Hydro Pump (recommended) or Mana Burst protects you from becoming Taunt bait, and Chiyuri is no slouch with her base 90 Special Attack. Spikes, Roar, and Thunder Wave are your general enfeebling moves.

Now, let me tell you why this is so cool on paper: This set is designed to be able to switch in on many Physical attackers and obtain a free turn to do whatever you think is appropriate. Chiyuri isn't the fattest supporter out there; she's chubby at best... but she certainly has enough to get by. Chiyuri takes hits well from both ends of the spectrum, so your choice of EV distribution in Defense or Special Defense is entirely up to you (although I hope you realize why I've chosen to give Chiyuri Defense EVs). Due to Chiyuri's lack of reliable recovery, Clerical support is very much called for. With Wish support, you can ideally set up some very nice combos with intimidate (Advent Alice gets special mention). Lastly, It matters little whether you choose to use Chiyuri as a lead or not, but for the reasons below, I'd prefer to have her in the back. Happy team building!

Adamant 252 Atk -1 AYuugi Earthquake vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 34.1% ~ 40.1%
Adamant 252 Atk -1 Elly Thunderpunch vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 30.7% ~ 36.2%
Jolly 252 Atk -1 Youki Shadow Hit vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 38.0% ~ 44.8%
Adamant 252 Atk -1 Youki Shadow Hit vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 41.7% ~ 49.0%
Adamant 252 Atk -1 ASuwako @ Sport Sweater Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 34.4% ~ 40.4%
Jolly 252 Atk -1 Mimi-chan Head Smash vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 20.8% ~ 24.5%
Jolly 252 Atk -1 Mimi-chan Explosion vs. 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 85.4% ~ 100.5%
Jolly 252 Atk -1 ANue @ Airline Uniform Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Chiyuri: 36.2% ~ 43.0%

Swift Swim
Chiyuri @ Lum Berry/Swimsuit
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 228 HP/28 Spd/252 SpAtk
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest nature (+SpAtk,-Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Mana Burst
- Rain Dance
- Thunder

She's no Gorebyss, and she's certainly no Starmie, and she's definetly no Nitori, but she does make an honest effort. 28 Speed EVs with a Modest nature is just enough to outspeed Lyrica after a Rain Dance, however, you could push that up to 52 Speed EVs should you wish to out-speed Mimi-chan in standard (pull out of HP EVs in this case). Swimsuit Hydro Pump in the rain hurts; Specially Defensive DPatchouli takes 97.4% from it, which is a 100% OHKO after spikes damage. The other moves are there for obvious reasons: Mana Burst runs off STAB and Thunder doesn't miss/has a 30% Paralysis rate.

Team Options
A good portion of the calculations listed in the first set absolutely demand Rapid Spin support. Defense Tewi is a great spinner that can take any Heart, Dark, or Ghost-type attacks aimed at Chiyuri. You didn't hear this from me, but Yuuka makes a great cleric when it comes to Aromatherapy as Chiyuri can take any Fire/Ice-type attacked directed at Yuuka. As Chiyuri is plagued by Nature-typed puppets, Flying-types make excellent team mates regardless of the set you decide to use; as a result, Wriggle or Attack Kazami, two of Chiyuri's most ruthless High School bullies, can become great allies.

Other Options
An Agility set is viable, but Chiyuri loses that awesome boost to Hydro Pump. The only other super cool option that catches the eye is Hyper Beam (umad Gengetsu?) which offers some neutral coverage, but it's not like Chiyuri needs extra help combating Reason-types. There's Air Slash for the flinch rate and as a last resort against Natures, but there's fierce competition for a move slot at this point, and Choice specs doesn't exist in Touhoumon. Lastly, Chiyuri has an Atk stat of 90, but for the love of all things good, never consider dipping into her pitiful Physical movepool.

Some great news to put here is that the set Chiyuri is running is dependent on her ability, and with Intimidate being one of them, it's never a guessing game.

Chiyuri hates Natures; they just about ruin Chiyuri's day overall. There's nothing Chiyuri can do to stop an onslaught from a Wriggle or an Attack Kazami, choiced or not (unless she's unfortunate enough to switch in on a Thunder vs the rain set). Attack/Speed Flandre straight up ruins the support set. Bar Kedama and A/Tokiko literally everything with Limber is hit Super effectively by one of Chiyuri's STAB moves. With this in mind, take caution when countering the Supportive set when using a Limber puppet. When looking at the rain set, her moveset is more than likely going to be as shown above. Once again, offensive natures are likely to be your best bet in this department. All in all, she's not difficult to counter, but she likes to Paralyze things.

Chiyuri is a huge wuss; she doesn't stay in long, and she relies heavily on her team mates. Take those out, and Chiyuri is dead weight, just like every other supporter on the planet. Very susceptible to bullying due to her lack of reliable recovery as well. Have fun.

Off-topic / Real men play with dolls.
« on: January 23, 2013, 11:00:32 PM »


Configuring Shoddy Touhoumon 2 is really just about as easy as "Download and Play." Although for the few users who may have trouble with the download or aren't familiar with the interface of their own PC for some reason, then I guess this is for you.

Since this is a Java-based program, you'll have to install Java from if you don't already have it. It's a free download. You'll just have to find out which version is meant for your system, but that's not too difficult.

1. First you want to Open/Download from the website. The download link can be found on the thread that you probably found this place from. Hit the "Download it here." (Note that the Client version is at 2.2.1 at the time of writing this, but the method of downloading and running this should not change in the future).

2. Open (You can close down your internet browser now; everything else will be taken care of in Shoddy)

3.  Inside, you'll find a folder named Shoddy2. DRAG/EXTRACT THIS TO YOUR DESKTOP or somewhere you won't lose it at. Attempting to open the client in the folder while it's still in the zip file will yield the "A Java exception has occurred" error. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this problem in the past, and this is half the reason I'm writing this.

4. Once your Shoddy2 folder has been extracted to your Desktop (or where ever you put it), open it and run ShoddyBattleClient2.

You'll be greeted with the welcome window shown below. But we're not ready to play yet (we still need to painlessly nab the sprites first).

5. Click File and then click Preferences.

6. Navigate over to the Sprites Tab. Delete any installed sprite packages from this menu if any are there. Select "1.8" from the drop down menu. Now click "Add..." and wait for the sprites to download.

And that's all. Hit connect and Register a name for yourself, and then log in! (Only a Username and Password are asked of you).

Shout-out to Derx

-The population tends to rise during "After School - nighttime" hours in the west. During this time around 10~16 people are online, and it's very easy to find someone to battle with.
-Your color is permanent. It helps the human eye to easily idenfity you in the chatroom I guess...
-We don't really have an established metagame as we're always finding new ways to play the game, new tactics, and new radical ways of playing once never used puppets (Read: Ruukoto).
-This game is very enjoyable for those with basic competitive Pokémon knowledge. Still, we appreciate all new users from newbies to experienced battlers. is a great place to check out for articles on competitive battling in the Third Generation.
-A very small Standard ban-list is in play to keep things fair. This list includes Defense Satori, Attack Shinmyoumaru, Speed Aya, Sendai, and Transcendant Maribel.
--Little Cup has a small ban-list as well, consisting of Chibi Rikako, Chibi Yumemi, and Chibi Kasen.
-Basic competitive clauses are in effect in Standard. Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, and Species Clause.
-Using two different forms of a character is not considered breaking the species clause. For example, you can have Wriggle and Speed Wriggle on the same team.

Unofficial Bullshizzle:
Customized with competitive battling in mind, but the stat spreads on these puppets in particular differ from the stat spreads found in other ROM hacks.
-Ten Desires cast
-Kasen line
-Magic Stones
-Double Dealing Character cast
-Transcendant Renko/Maribel.

Feel free to ask any questions in this thread if you're still having any troubles whatsoever.

Movesets / Momiji
« on: December 21, 2012, 05:51:43 PM »

Type: Beast/Steel
Abilities: Intimidate or Guts
Base Stats:
HP: 80
Atk: 130
Def: 80
Spd: 90
SpAtk: 50
SpDef: 50


Momiji is a near-perfect replica of Salamence in this game (bar obvious typing differences), and her job is essentially the same as it too. So as it stands, Momiji is currently one of the most reliable Tailwind (Dragon Dance) sweepers in the game. Momiji can come on in many threats such as the Konpakus and many other Ghost types virtually unharmed while landing a free Attack drop in the process. It is at this time that Momiji is free to wreak havoc on the opponent by either setting up or hitting their Momiji counter HARD before you're forced out. Momiji is something that can fit on just about every competitive team, and is something that every competitive team should have an answer for; a free Tailwind from this puppy might just spell doom for the opposing team.


Momiji @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 36 HP/252 Atk/220 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Tailwind
- Braver
- Crunch / Earthquake
- Extremespeed / Blade Flash / Earthquake

Without a doubt, the best way to get Momiji into the fray is to switch her in on a resisted physical attack, and then play it by ear. Your opponent will likely switch into their Momiji counter from here, at which point you hit it on the switch. Under normal circumstances, you now know that your opponent has at least one way of dealing with Momiji, and you can dispose of it through other means. Just like Salamence, you do not want to attempt a sweep until your opponent's Momiji answer is dead; setting up early game is a terrible idea.

Momiji's moves give her plenty of neutral and super-effective coverage. Braver is a staple and no Momiji is seen without it. Crunch is recommended in the third slot as it reaches 120BP after STAB, and nips the Ghost-types that you will be countering/switching in on. There are many scenarios in which Momiji needs to chip off the last bits of an opponent's health, and this is where Extremespeed comes in. Blade Flash is similar, but it is weaker than Extremespeed after STAB. It may seem odd to put a priority move on something with Tailwind, but remember that early game, you have literally no time to set it up. If priority isn't your cup of tea for a set like this, then Earthquake is there for a little extra coverage against the dreaded Fire-types who will inevitably try to ruin your day, and it completes the dreaded Steel/Earth combination. However, do note that Earthquake is weaker than Crunch when hitting neutrally as Momiji does not get the STAB boost on it, but on paper, Earthquake would help Momiji immensely when pulling off a sweep, so don't be afraid to try it.


Momiji @ Choice Ribbon / Special Bloomers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
-Crunch / Killing Bite

If setting up isn't your thing and you prefer the straight up hit-and-run approach, then this is for you. With a Choice item equipped, Momiji's Attack stat reaches an astonishing 591, which is not something that an intimidated opponent is going to want to stay in on. Depending on your playstyle, it might be easy to fool your opponent into thinking you're running the standard Tailwind set. Adamant is recommended, but you can run Jolly if you're feeling good about her base 90 Speed and/or you know your speed tiers really well.


The 36 HP/252 Atk/220 Spd spread reaches a speed stat just high enough to outpace Lyrica, Advent Marisa, and Choice Band Youki after a Tailwind, the former of which would otherwise obliterate you with Hyper Voice. However, a standard 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd spread is recommended on any set that doesn't utilize Extremespeed in order to outpace Mimi-chan after a Tailwind, and it would also force Speed Aya as well as Lily Black to use Detect for their Speed Boost.

Other Options

The big issue with other options for Momiji is that they have a hard time competing for a move-slot. Substitute could work rather nicely if you predict your opponent will switch out, but straight up attacking the counter is a more reliable option, as Momiji doesn't like losing a chunk of her HP unless she's going to attempt Sub-Punching or setting up a Tailwind right after. Momiji also has access to Swords Dance, but her base 90 speed is practically screaming for Tailwind. There's also the famous Guts/Rage combo, but that only works well in the actual game, and Rage does not work on the Pokemon Lab server just yet.


While Momiji has a 4x weakness to fire, that does not mean it is safe to just park a Fire type in front of her and hope your team will be saved, as a lot of Momiji do in fact run Earthquake alongside Crunch and Braver. Some can make Momiji think twice, though. A physically defensive Defense Mokou can take two Earthquakes from a +1 Momiji and three Earthquakes from a +0, but other than that, you just need to play your cards right with your Fire-type of choice. Helper Star Sapphire is way up there in terms of non-fire counters as she resists everything Momiji throws at her, and can threaten an OHKO with an unboosted Surf most of the time, and all the time after Spikes damage. A physically defensive Defense Hina pose quite the threat as well with Flamethrower/Fire Blast and does not fear anything Momiji can do to her. Defense Meiling can come in on any attack and proceed to set up Bulk Up, or if she comes in on an attack she can threaten to use DynamicPunch/Hi Jump Kick to put a serious dent in Momiji or even OHKO her after Spikes damage.

Movesets / Tori
« on: December 06, 2012, 01:36:43 AM »

Type: Flying/Illusion
Abilities: Immunity
Base Stats:
HP: 30
Atk: 20
Def: 40
Spd: 90
SpAtk: 110
SpDef: 50



Tori @ Gothic Outfit/Lum Berry
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SpAtk
Modest nature (+SpAtk,-Atk)
- Aeroblast
- Fire Blast
- Mana Burst/Air Slash
- Agility/Sing

Tori is pure novelty, and should only really be played when you're in the mood for a little fun. Aeroblast and Fire Blast provide excellent coverage alongside one another, and Fire Blast will hit harder than Air Slash in most cases. Mana Burst is mostly for the extra SE coverage on the Faith Types who would otherwise resist Aeroblast and Fire Blast. Air Slash might seem like an attractive option due to the fact that Tori gets STAB on it, but it only helps Tori net some extra damage over Fire Blast on Star Sapphire, Helper Star Sapphire, Sunny Milk, Defense Sunny Milk, Kanako, Speed Shizuha, Technical Yuuka, Attack Minoriko, Attack Keine, Defense Keine, Rin, Speed Rin, Attack Rin, and Technical Shou in UU, and Defense Kaguya, Technical Sanae, and Aki Sisters in OU. Agility is end game only, if by some miracle you know you can out-speed the rest of your opponent's team with a little extra speed, but it should be noted that such a feat has never been recorded. Sing is a more realistic option to put a Toxic-Stalling wall to sleep as Tori is immune to poison, or just anything it can out-speed in general.

Other Options

Use Speed Utsuho in Standard.

Sing (chirp) and Twister. A 60% chance to put something to sleep and an opportunity to remove spikes from your team. Both can be used in the last slot, but I'm sure there are better users of these moves, even in UU. Blast Burn was a very over-hyped option a little while back, and while it is more accurate than Fire Blast, it is unfortunately 4 BP weaker if you decide on White Herb over the Gothic Outfit, and can only be used twice in succession once.

Keep the EVs and nature as is. Tori needs all the power it can muster.


Defense Reisen and Defense Parsee get special mention for being immune to sleep.

Basically everything with a base speed of 100 or higher and a Speed-boosting nature will be able to out-speed and roast Tori. Anything slower than 100 and you risk being put to sleep. Believe it or not, it's not uncommon for things to lose a rather hefty chunk of their health while switching in on these birds. Just predict correctly and you're in business.


General Metagame / [s]Sendai/Ancestor is no longer "Uber".[/s]
« on: November 29, 2012, 04:25:45 AM »

[10:03:21] Fireburn: Agastya
[10:03:27] Fireburn: can we please ban Ancestor again :V

I'll try to keep this one short and sweet. For those of you who haven't been on the Pokémon Lab server in a while, or plan to try it out, Ancestor/Sendai/Hakurei Miko is no longer Uber and is now available for usage in Standard, which in turn leaves Defense Satori as the only "Uber" within the server. As master Agastya explains it, the reasoning behind this is due to the fact that we now have a somewhat larger population, which should give us the ability to properly test her out. In the past, she was banned due to her ability to "walk all over" teams after a single Curse. Since then, new tactics and possible counters to Sendai have been discovered. But unfortunately, nobody played Ubers, so as a result, Sendai wasn't tested. Now that Sendai is available for use in Standard, the users can use her and play against her once again, and hopefully we can decide for real this time whether or not she deserves the boot.

As for my opinion, I think this is a good thing that we are forced to play with her. Sendai was only temporarily banned to begin with. I've never used or played against Sendai, and I wanted to learn what the fuss was about her. Best part about this is that if she really is a problem, she'll likely be dealt with again (but then again maybe not; I don't know how master Agastya's mind works).

EDIT: She's banned again.

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