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Topics - shai_LP

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General Metagame / OU/Standard Threatlist WIP [Open for editing]
« on: August 24, 2013, 09:31:16 AM »

Theres a back-up of this but I'd still appreciate if no one kills the formatting.
[When adding a link over a name please keep the color formatting]

Text Only No Explanations List

Ok due to the slowly growing community of shoddy I'd say a threat list is almost needed as a semi replacement for standard suspects. This is pretty much my attempt to remove as much personal bias as possible before doing real work because I'm bad at objective.

Anyways due to the insane amount of viable mons the goal was to narrow it down to top 50 attack/Def top 20 support without overlapping. Before I actually go and finish this thing off (Props to Shai for doing all the real work so far) heres the big list.

If you feel anything has been missed, missplaced, or over rated feel free to list what and the reasons why.

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Dark Alice
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Magic Stones
Star Saphire

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Old OP: Doesn't even need to go in-depth to a thing's usage.

Just why you need to prepare for it.


Theres already the obvious

Adv Reisen
Technical Toyohime

Star Sapphire
Helper Star Sapphire
Helper Eirin
Defense Daiyousei
Defense Kaguya
Defense Tenshi

Off-topic / Do we have a place to meet while the Server is down?
« on: August 20, 2013, 03:22:21 AM »
Would not mind starting a channel on Rizon or something.

Shoddy Touhoumon Info/Discussion / Puppet Image Hotlinking
« on: August 16, 2013, 08:01:49 PM »
I've seen 3 types of Sprites in Movesets/Teams threads

Is it ever going to matter at any point which one takes their's from?

Enough to justify something like  :AAlice: :AdAlice: :DAlice: :Zfairy: :Alice: and the like being "custom emoticons" for easier moveset/team building stuff

not even sure if SMF supports that but still.

Just wondering, because maybe bandwidth problem? [probably not I'm just being silly]

Movesets / [WIP] Dark Alice
« on: August 16, 2013, 11:12:59 AM »
    Dark Alice

Doubles PP Usage

Gives Immunity to Earth Type Moves and Spikes

Base Stats:

     Base        Min-  Min  Max  Max+
HP  90          -     321  384  -
Atk  50          122   136  199  218
Def  85          185   206  269  295
Spe  95          203   226  289  317
SpA  140         284   316  379  416
SpD  100         212   236  299  328


+ Very Bulky for her SpA Stat
+ Spikes Immunity on a Wallbreaker
+ Can take banded priority hits from full HP and Resistant to Extremespeed [0.5] and Mach Punch [0.25]
- No real way to hit Star Sapphire/DKaguya
- x4 Heart Weakness [very common type]
- Very many of her "staple" moves and at least one of her STABs are inaccurate

Special Attacker
Dark Alice @ Mistress Outfit/Witch Costume/Lum Berry
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)/Timid(+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4SpD
- Hyper Beam
- Mana Burst/Luster Purge
- Energy Ball
- Signal Beam/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Charge

Modest Dark Alice hits 416 SpA, Timid Hitting 379 SpA but hitting 317 Speed. There's a World of Difference in regards to OHKOs and What can Check Dark Alice there. {Add Collapsible here later} Hyper Beam/Luster Purge absolutely destroys anything it hits if they're not specially bulky or resistant and anything that lives takes a 1/5 chance of having their Special Defense lowered a stage as well. Both of these carry a chance of missing though, so if you'd like something more reliable on the Reason side take Mana Burst. What you take for coverage afterwards depends on what you want to kill

Energy Ball kills obvious the obvious Heart type switch in and lets Dark Alice beat slower Heart Types provided she doesn't miss, its very nearly a staple due to being her most reliable check to slower hearts and hitting Youki/Speed Youmu on the switch. Signal Beam lets you hit other Dark Types Harder and fill the reliable ManaBeam Combo if you fear Hyper Beam Misses on SE Hits Thunderbolt scares off Advent Murasas that haven't put Rain Up yet and some fliers Fire Blast hits Steels on the Switch-In and Scares off Nature types Ice Beam Provides steady neutral coverage, Scares off Natures and tells Defensive Regular Aya to take a hike. Charge has similar typing to Signal Beam and is weaker, but is Dark Alice's only way to boost her special attack higher, its worth noting it has similar power to Signal Beam at +1 as well

Worth noting that without Ice Beam or Fire Blast you become zfairy bait.

SpD EVs instead of HP EVs are so Dark Alice's HP is indivisible by 4, possibly giving her an extra turn to attack while being poisoned/burned/buffeted by sandstorms, if you do not value this feel free to throw the 4 EVs into an extra point of HP

Youki/Speed Youmu Lure and Utility
Dark Alice @ Mistress Outfit / Witch Costume / Lum berry
Nature:Modest (+SpA, -Atk)/Timid(+Spe, -Atk)
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4SpD
- Hyper Beam
- Mana Burst/Luster Purge
- Icy Wind
- Thunderbolt/Energy Ball/Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Signal Beam/Charge

Switch in on something scary that can't really threaten you/You're fairly certain will switch out and drop the Enemy's Switch-In to 66% Speed. With the following Spread even Modest Dark Alice will outspeed Base 140 Speed Boosting Natures [Jolly Mimi-Chan, Speed Aya in Ubers...]

Youki/SYoumu is a hilariously common switch-in to Dark Alice, Resisting Both STABs and Outspeeding Dark Alice before she can Fire Blast/Energy Ball and killing her Draw the Line/Battle Chant [Blade Flash surprisingly won't kill 100% healthy Alice, even with Band]. Aya forms do not appreciate the -1 Seeing that have to waste a turn detecting to get back to Speed. Even if you don't get a switch you've got solid damage and they're assured to die to the next hit now that they don't out speed you, if they switch in something that walls you Speed is a Huge Deal and you open opportunities for other members of your team to come in and threaten.

Outside of Icy wind this Functions Similar to the Last Set

oh and zfairy can't switch in that icy wind thats a big deal man.

Other Options
You can run Pinch Berries, with or without Endure due to Dark Alice's bulk. Salac in particular is appeasing due to the fact you'll end up out-speeding even Mimi-Chans at +1, if you're going to do this, its best you put that Extra EV point into HP so you can hit 1/4 HP quicker/easier.

Taunt is Taunt, lets you beat annoying demons like Yoshika/Speed Medicine without breaking a sweat, seeing that Dark Alice is more suited to wallbreaking and not sweeping it could be worth giving up your coverage spot for.

Magic Coat can find some use in an Anti-Lead set, but requires a bit more prediction, could be worth pairing with Taunt. Maybe.

Less Consistent Options
Tri-Attack functions similar to Signal beam and has a better hax chance (20% vs 10%). You could trap something with Jamming but why not Outright kill it? Mirror Coat requires prediction but leaves you Weakened with a Base 95'r. Knock-Off hits items off other puppets but you're better of maiming them instead usually. Light Screen/Toxic suffer from the same issues.

Feint is Dark Alice's sole source of Priority, but it's hilariously weak even if you opt to invest your Attack for some reason:
'Silly Damage Calcs'
252 Atk Choice Band  Dark Alice Feint vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ruukoto: 48-57 (19.91 - 23.65%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dark Alice Feint vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Advent Alice: 42-50 (16.09 - 19.15%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dark Alice Feint vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Luize 28-33 (8.72 - 10.28%) -- 9HKO at best
but it can go around Detect/Beat other priority moves with +2!!!!
It also handily deals with most EndureSalac users, although there are much better puppets to run priority on. Rest is ok I guess but I've never had any success with a ChestoRest set so I didn't list it, maybe with good cleric support.

Imprison + Signal Beam can potentially counter some Heart Types or even Non-Heart types looking to sucker you with a Signal Beam but if you Imprison something not running the same things as you you're SoL, requires strong prediction. Detect is ok for scouting. Hearts Eye looks impressive but you're better off hitting something instead.

Conversion can make you not weak to heart, maybe. *grasping at straws*

You can run an EV set of 252HP/252 SpA like TToyo to extend Dark Alice's bulk, but you'll start to be speed creeped by certain popular EV Builds (Standard Helper Eirin comes to mind, but she usually runs in fear of her life from Reason STAB)

Team Support

Kill Hearts Obviously
Wishers are appreciated, Ruukoto/Advent Alice get special mention for being able to pass guaranteed Wishes via SlowPassing and baiting out Dream Attackers for Dark Alice to Sponge
Gets along well with Earth/Ghost-weak stuff
Many of Dark Alice's counters that don't get care about getting Speed Debuffed from the Icy Wind happen to be specially-defensive heart types or Yumeko, so carrying counters to those seems like a good idea. Advent Mokou, Yorihime, and Futo can all do a number on these.

Lock-On Passing from Helper Nazrin or Star Sapphire forms greatly help Dark Alice's consistency with +2 Accuracy boost. The former is notable for having STAB charge beam to boost SpA alongside Accuracy, you might find the power a bit underwhelming though.

Checks and Counters

The Heart

Advent Meiling will wall Dark Alice regardless of set, and then forces her out with Vital Throw. What do Advent Alice and Lily White have in common? Monohearts that can soak up Dark Alice's STABs and kill her with Signal Beam/Body Slam. Anything Looking to Revenge Kill with Coverage Signal Beam is pretty much a death sentence to Dark Alice if she doesn't get out, Advent Reisen and Speed Koishi fit the bill, Outspeeding Dark Alice under usual conditions.

Strong Steel Hits [IE Drawn Line/Braver] usually down a full HP Dark Alice

Even the things that get crippled by Icy Wind on switch-in don't care about it on Revenge Switch in anyway, So Youki, Speed Youmu, Advent Cirno, Speed/Regular Yorihime and Meira can Sack Dark Alice on the revenge.if Running Modest Dark Alice, this list extends to Jolly Momji, Timid Keine,Jolly Attack Komachi and Jolly Elly(The former actually speed ties Timid Dark Alice as well)

Things that straight up just tank Dark Alice's hits like Defense Daiyousei, Konngara, Star Sapphire and Defense Kaguya can force her out, Especially if they carry Drawn Line/Signal Beam. Kon is the worst of these, Tanking Luster Purge/Hyper Beam like nothing and doubling it's PP cost.

Test[/size]]test if you can spoiler in spoilers

I guess you can, Spoilerception

Movesets / [WIP]Zombie Fairy
« on: August 16, 2013, 02:06:38 AM »
Heavy spacing issues. Capitalization and punctuation issues here and there everywhere. Easy fix. Smogon format used for sets, but that's cool too. Missing vital information regarding Spikes. (What's the point of Detect on ZFairy again?) Heavy spacing issues. Plenty of information not given, and plenty of mis-information given.

Zombie Fairy
Type: Nature/Flying
Abilities: Play Ghost
Base Stats:
HP: 1
Atk: 70
Def: 40
Spd: 50
SpAtk: 80
SpDef: 40

Hit Super Effectively By: Steel, Fire, Miasma, Flying, and Ice
Immunities: Everything Else

You'd think in a Meta where Aya are common and sweepers running Poison Jab to slay Defense Kaguya and Star Sapphire, that this little fairy playing pretend would be useless. Well, you'd only be half-right. Due to spikes/leech seed immunity, as well as immunity to pursuit trapping, and the fact that Sandstorm users aren't 100% on every team (or at least, now they aren't due to Sand Veil Tenma not existing) Zombie Fairy (referred henceforth by her in game name: ZFairy) Remains into a Niche Pivot/Pseudo Phazer who forces Switches/Un-optimal Move-sets on certain Sweepers just by Existing. Not a bad upgrade over her Progenitor Shedinja, huh?

Offensive Pivot
- Detect
- Fire Spin
- Perish Song/Toxic
- Roar/Wish/Confuse Ray/Will-O-Wisp/
  Tail Whip/Fake Tears/Memento/Toxic
Item: Lum Berry
Nature: Mild (+ SpA - Def)
Ability: Play Ghost
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe

That many extra options might go down to other options but bear with me pls doesnt/shanks

This Set's usage is simple, Switch in on an immunity and force them to hit you super effectively, and Switch out to something that can take that hit.

On Something that can't hit you AT ALL (due to taking 2/3 Attacking Moves that just so happened to not hit you) you can have a little bit more fun.

Fire Spin is here to give the partial-trapping kill threat, otherwise ZFairy can't really scare off or kill Big Walls or Bulky Boosters (if they want to get cheeky and attempt to PP stall or something).

I recommend Perish Song over Toxic, but Toxic Potentially allows ZFairy to solo the rest of the opponent's team if your second-to-last Mon Exploded/Destiny Bonded the last Mon that could hit Zfairy, Will-O-Wisp can go there too, but you're already running fire spin, and if they have a Flash Fire Mon you get pretty boned.

Roar will shuffle their switch-in to another member of their team, hopefully something that can't hit ZFairy and the cycle continues itself.

Wish will pass a 50% heal to whatever you switch-in afterwards, much appreciated on bulkier/stall teams

Confuse Ray Forces them to switch again, much like roar except it'll actually affect Gatekeeper/Soundproof Mons, if they decide to stay in anyway it gives your switch-in the opportunity to set-up

If you want to get greedy/play the luck game you can Fire spin here and potentially trapkill something via Perish Song/Toxic Damage

In the same vein, Debuffing Moves also open holes in the opponent in the enemy team, weakening their defense to get hit by Physical Priority or neutering a special sweeper, possibly forcing them to Switch Again

Status is Status, Fullstall loves that Toxic Support and Wisp can Neuter an Offensive Sweeper, making them bring out their cleric.

If you do not have Rain/Sunny Day Evoker on your team I highly suggest you consider Memento so you have the Option of letting your Z-Fairy off herself usefully when you have to switch something in after something dies while Sandstream is up.

- Detect
- Wish
- Roar/Confuse Ray
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp/Tail Whip/Fake Tears
  /Memento/Roar/Confuse Ray/Perish Song
Item: Lum Berry
Nature: Naive (+Spe -SpD)
Ability: Play Ghost
EVs: 252 Spe/252 Atk

Same set as above except it doesn't have the threat of killing a thing via trapping, lets you spread your supporting wings a bit and opens up a Moveslot, The usage is different enough to justify it's own moveset because this ZFairy will almost always be running Wish to Support the rest of her team.

You can still run Perish Song anyway scare off Boosters/Baton Passers but you won't be able to guarantee a death with it anymore unless they're on their last mon.

EV spread is so you can do as much damage as possible with struggle run when you run out of PP!!!!! [can't really put it anywhere else]

Other Options
You can replace Detect with another move if you want to yolo-ZFairy, but you better have insane prediction skills otherwise.

Swagger if you like it I guess, Taunt maybe? I don't know what ZFairy can speed creep with 50 base speed but it exists to mess with Defense Daiyousei I guess.

I guess you can Dig on their switch-in to get some guaranteed damage but a lot of Zombie Fairy's checks are already flying or Earth Resistant/Immune

You can run Sunny Day if you want to ZFairy to be able to get rid of the sand herself when something dies on your Team and you have to switch her in while the sand is up [Make sure their Suika is dead though]

Zfairy has Access to Nasty Plot and Curse but nothing is going to let you set-up that long on them, and if you had time to set-up like that you could have killed something via perish trapping

Air Slash to play the luck game against anything else you can out-speed with 50 Base speed too I guess

Thief to steal peoples Lum Berries? I'm grasping at straws at this point man.

In Cartridge Play you can Run Pain Split, Eruption, and Tickle, but these are not currently supported in shoddy.

Pain Split is obviously the best of these, being a 100% accurate version of prank, and can probably replace Perish Song on the Offensive Zfairy set if you so desire. It kills enemies in the same amount of turns potentially, but it can be messed up by Lefties/Wish/Recovery. The Trade-Off is that you can maim/weaken Sweepers that switching in to Hit Zfairy with 50% damage immediately.

Tickle is a better Tail Whip and Eruption always has 150BP due to ZFairy only having 1HP, it might not be so amazing off a base 80 SpA but who knows, it might do more than 50% on some select switch-ins.

ZFairy greatly enjoys spikes support due to how much it forces switches and can spin-block twister if you need to

Yumeko will gladly take those Flying and Miasma hits shot at ZFairy and potentially trapkill via pursuit [Or just flat out kill via Blade Flash or Sculpture]

Attack Murasa resists Ice/Steel/Fire and Zfairy is immune to all of it's weaknesses, but more importantly she can get rid of Sandstorm using Rain Dance and Sweep well (DMurasa can be used as a substitute if Playing UU)

Nitori Resists the Above in addition to Flying hits as well due her Wind subtyping, but in return, she shares a Miasma Weakness with ZFairy, which may not be optimal due to how popular of a coverage type it is.

SubPassers can give the Offensive ZFairy Set a turn to do whatever it needs to do even in the face of super effective but its a little gimmicky

JamPassers can give the Offensive ZFairy Set an Opportunity to kill, but again, a little bit more gimmicky

ZFairy herself acts as a very Potent Addition to any Strong Defensive Core that resists her weaknesses and can use her immunities. [Defense Daiyousei + Helper Eirincomes to mind

In General: She wants things that soak her weaknesses and Kill anything on the opponent's side that can potentially harm her.

ZFairy's Arch-Nemesis are all 3 Forms of Suika all of them force Zfairy to get out immediately or Die to Sandstorm. In case the Suika for any reason is running Speed investment, they have the gall to kill Zfairy with Fire Moves or Steel Fist before she can get in her last moment of truth as well.

Yamame forms get special mention because most things Switching in to Response to Poison do not appreciate taking an Earthquake or Rock Bullet Right after switching in.

Sakuya forms and Yumeko get special mention for being able to Sculpture through Zfairy's Detect

Anything running Poison Jab
Anything running Blade Flash or any other Steel Move

Most people run Miasma/Ice/Steel/Fire moves for coverage [rarely will you see Non-STAB flying moves] So you gotta be careful even if the other guy is running a STAB combination you're immune to, this can be circumvented by Detect until you're able to scout out their set but still.

If you broke her Lum you can kill her with Toxic/Will-O-Wisp too

Confusion is also likely to kill her if she's not lucky.

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This might need reformatting and stuff this is a good enough rough draft to end off on.

Teambuilding / I had time on the bus why not [RMT pls]
« on: August 06, 2013, 12:29:50 AM »
Maybe this putting thoughts on paper thing will give me some insight on how to improve these iunno

What the what is this


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Rock Head
Lum Berry
252spe 252atk 4hp
Double Edge
Flare Blitz
Head Smash

Back when Tenma/Sendai were around this was pretty much bait to call them out early. Still bait for Rock Bullets/Earthquakes/Things that can tank an Explosion but It's main purpose is to provide pressure straight from the beginning of the match

if I know the main lead is going to be a bother I'll just blow up then and there to force a 5v5, otherwise, this just punches holes through teams or Takes a time-out to come back Revenges later when I probably switch to...

dark alice

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Mistress Outfit
252spe 252spA 4hp
Hyper Beam
Ice Beam
Mana Burst

Comes in on the obvious Earth-Move on Mimi-chan and wrecks havok.

Meant to punch holes in the enemy team, back then cleanly OHKO'd Sendai and could put up a fight vs most Tenma sets[weakened by explosion or not].

Nowadays it just clicks one of it's STABs unless a coverage move could do better.
Not sure if I should stick with BoltBeam tbh but I don't have a good reason to change it. Being immune to spikes helps a lot.


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Maid Uniform
252spe 252atk 4hp
Brick Break
Draw The Line
Shadow Hit
Swords Dance

Perfect Coverage Sweeper ahoy. [I really tried to use Speed Youmu in his slot but Youki is just more consistent fffs]

Due to Insomnia [which Speed Youmu doesn't have] I can come in random Hypnosis/Sleep Powders instead of just waiting for something to Signal Beam/Steel Attack Dark Alice. Same goes for Toxics as well.

Not much to say, just hits Swords Dance once and decimates the rest of the team, I haven't tried running Tailwind and I see no reason to now that Speed Aya isn't lurking about [I'm going to revenged by a mimi-chan or speed tied one day because I said this]

Due to his speed sometimes I can just revenge something frail as well.

technical toyo

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Own Tempo
252hp 252spA 4def
Calm Mind
Earth Power
Energy Ball

technical fish sauce

Pretty Cool Sweeper, Back-up if Youki dies to something, usually cleans house relatively well.

I should probably have a better justification for her being here but she pretty much just works.


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252hp 252atk 4sp

Pivot. Comes in to intimidate something, detects or wishes, and gets out.
Also Revenge Killer on something already weakened at times. She does her job nicely.

Pretty much my only answer to things bulking up, and not even a very good one.

advent meirin

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252hp 4atk 252spD
Heal Bell
Slack Off
Vital Throw

The Cleric/Secondary Pivot. Saved my butt a ton of times due Strength Boosting.
helps break walls down too by knocking off their lefties with vital throw.

Most teams will put a support or spiker lead at the beginning before putting pressure on, This team points a missile launcher at your balls from the get go and starts pressure immediately.

My Answer to Entry hazards is to make sure it doesn't happen to begin with, so smart players who put their spikers outside of the lead position can throw me for a loop at times.

For a team that that was just pull 6 random puppets together in play it feels pretty damned balanced with 2 Physical Threats [maybe 3 with luck] 2 Special Threats and 2 Defensive Behemoths

However, this team gets really opened up by physical blows though and it shows, Rin was pretty much thrown in at the end to keep them in check with intimidate+burn and give wish recovery the Bulkier Members.

if something boosts enough times as well I don't really have an option to phaze, I should probably run Yawn on Toyo or Roar on Rin to workaround this but I don't know.

I was gonna put more here but perhaps after looking at my team history It'll be better off for another day, another thread

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