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Topics - Rhetco

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1
Shoddy Touhoumon Info/Discussion / 9v9 Play Mode
« on: April 12, 2014, 07:04:45 PM »
[2:55:34] &Agastya: uhh lets call it
[2:55:37] &Agastya: a late april fools day joke

So 9v9 is now a thing. It's chaotic and messy and wonderful in every way.





Since it was created like 15 minutes before this topic, you can probably guess that we have no clue as to how battles are going to work in this mode. It might be a massive stallfest, or it could be hyper offense all day every day. We honestly don't know.

So yeah come on down to shoddy and we'll all pretend that we actually care about refining an actual, serious metagame.

How to make a 9v9 team:

Making your team support 9 puppets is very easy. All you need to do is open team builder, and then go Edit<Change Team Size<9

Known issues:

  9v9 battles can only be done from find; challenging someone manually will cause an odd glitch where the battle window will only pop up for one fighter. The person who does not get the window will always be the one who accepted the challenge, and they will not be able to join through the Battles tab because the game will think they are already in the battle.
The server will also think it is a "custom" game, and will limit both teams to only 6 puppets.
  9v9 teams can be loaded into standard, but you won't actually be able to battle anyone; the server seems to ignore the fact that you are in find.

2
Movesets / Shingyoku-F
« on: August 17, 2013, 04:45:17 AM »

Shingyoku-F  (wiki)

Type: Faith/Fire
Ability: Pressure

HP: 80
Atk: 45
Def: 100
Sp.Atk: 100
Sp.Def: 170
Spd: 45

It isn't an overstatement to say that Shingyoku-F has amazing special bulk. Not only does she have the 3rd highest Special Defense in the game, but she also gets Calm Mind, allowing her to wall a huge amount of puppets, should she be given a chance to set up. Depending on the investment you give her, Shingyoku's Special Defense can reach up to 723 after a single Calm Mind, and when paired with her decent 100 Special Attack, she does a very good job of taking damage while dealing damage. Her physical bulk may seem lack-luster in comparison, but with good team support Shingyoku-F can lead to easy wins.

However, it isn't easy for her to sweep. First of all, She doesn't have any reliable recovery. Pain Split and Rest are the only moves Shingyoku learns that let her heal, and she doesn't even get Sleep Talk to compliment the latter. Second of all, Shingyoku is really slow. She's so slow that even Yuuka out-speeds her,  which is silly. Also, she's a Fire type with only decent Defense in a game full of Earthquakes. That tends to be bad as well.


Special Wall/Attacker
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold or Calm
Evs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef if Bold,
        248 HP/252 SDef/8 Def if Calm
-Calm Mind
-Extrasensory
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Pain Split/Rest

Before I say anything else, I first want to talk about Shingyoku's Nature and EV spread.
This spread can be a big deal depending on your team, and how you want her to play. Bold is for if you want Shingyoku to be capable of taking a physical hit when in dangerous situations, while Calm is for if you strictly want her to take special hits, and be damn good at it.
To hopefully make this decision a bit easier for you, I've compiled far more than necessary a decent amount of damage calculations.
Please note that all opposing puppets in these calculations have 252 EVs in their respective attacking stats.

Bold
TAya Adamant Brave Bird
142-168 (39.01 - 46.15%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Chen Jolly Double Edge
236-278 (64.83 - 76.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chen Jolly Heat Claw
198-234 (54.39 - 64.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SYoumu Jolly Shadow Dance
121-144 (33.24 - 39.56%) -- 21.83% chance to 3HKO

AdCirno Jolly Ice Ball
103-123 (28.29 - 33.79%) -- possible 4HKO

AdCirno Jolly Ice Ball +1
154-183 (42.3 - 50.27%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

SKomachi Jolly Waterfall
84-100 (23.07 - 27.47%) -- possible 5HKO

SKomachi Jolly Waterfall +2
168-198 (46.15 - 54.39%) -- 5.86% chance to 2HKO

AFlandre Adamant Thrash
237-280 (65.1 - 76.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tensoku Impish Earthquake
140-166 (38.46 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Tensoku Impish Explosion
348-410 (95.6 - 112.63%) -- 75% chance to OHKO


Yumemi Timid Luster Purge
240-284 (65.93 - 78.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yumemi Timid Mana Burst
180-212 (49.45 - 58.24%) -- 66.02% chance to 2HKO

Dark Alice Timid Luster Purge
260-308 (71.42 - 84.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dark Alice Timid Mana Burst
198-234 (54.39 - 64.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor
150-177 (41.2 - 48.62%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor +2
297-351 (81.59 - 96.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AUtsuho Timid Energy Ball
101-119 (27.74 - 32.69%) -- possible 4HKO

AUtsuho Timid Air Slash
94-112 (25.82 - 30.76%) -- possible 4HKO

TToyohime Modest Earth Power
204-242 (56.04 - 66.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rikako Timid Psycho Boost
312-368 (85.71 - 101.09%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

Rikako Timid Mana Burst
204-240 (56.04 - 65.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ARin Timid Binding Voice
156-186 (42.85 - 51.09%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

APatchouli Modest Mana Burst
158-188 (43.4 - 51.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


AFTER CALM MIND

Yumemi Timid Luster Purge
162-192 (44.5 - 52.74%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yumemi Timid Mana Burst
120-144 (32.96 - 39.56%) -- 18.51% chance to 3HKO

Dark Alice Timid Luster Purge
174-206 (47.8 - 56.59%) -- 35.16% chance to 2HKO

Dark Alice Timid Mana Burst
132-156 (36.26 - 42.85%) -- 96.68% chance to 3HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor
100-118 (27.47 - 32.41%) -- possible 4HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor +2
198-234 (54.39 - 64.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AUtsuho Timid Energy Ball
68-80 (18.68 - 21.97%) -- possible 6HKO

AUtsuho Timid Air Slash
63-75 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 7HKO

TToyohime Modest Earth Power
134-162 (36.81 - 44.5%) -- 99.93% chance to 3HKO

Rikako Timid Psycho Boost
206-246 (56.59 - 67.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rikako Timid Mana Burst
134-162 (36.81 - 44.5%) -- 99.93% chance to 3HKO

ARin Timid Binding Voice
104-126 (28.57 - 34.61%) -- possible 4HKO

APatchouli Modest Mana Burst
106-126 (29.12 - 34.61%) -- possible 4HKO
Calm
TAya Adamant Brave Bird
196-232 (53.84 - 63.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chen Jolly Double Edge
326-386 (89.56 - 106.04%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Chen Jolly Heat Claw
270-320 (74.17 - 87.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SYoumu Jolly Shadow Dance
169-199 (46.42 - 54.67%) -- 9.38% chance to 2HKO

AdCirno Jolly Ice Ball
144-169 (39.56 - 46.42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

AdCirno Jolly Ice Ball +1
213-252 (58.51 - 69.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SKomachi Jolly Waterfall
117-138 (32.14 - 37.91%) -- 0.71% chance to 3HKO

SKomachi Jolly Waterfall +2
231-273 (63.46 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AFlandre Adamant Thrash
328-387 (90.1 - 106.31%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Tensoku Impish Earthquake
194-230 (53.29 - 63.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tensoku Impish Explosion
483-569 (132.69 - 156.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Yumemi Timid Luster Purge
186-222 (51.09 - 60.98%) -- 92.58% chance to 2HKO

Yumemi Timid Mana Burst
140-168 (38.46 - 46.15%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Dark Alice Timid Luster Purge
204-242 (56.04 - 66.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dark Alice Timid Mana Burst
152-182 (41.75 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor
117-138 (32.14 - 37.91%) -- 0.71% chance to 3HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor +2
232-274 (63.73 - 75.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AUtsuho Timid Energy Ball
79-93 (21.7 - 25.54%) -- possible 5HKO

AUtsuho Timid Air Slash
75-88 (20.6 - 24.17%) -- possible 6HKO

TToyohime Modest Earth Power
158-188 (43.4 - 51.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Rikako Timid Psycho Boost
242-288 (66.48 - 79.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rikako Timid Mana Burst
158-188 (43.4 - 51.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

ARin Timid Binding Voice
122-146 (33.51 - 40.1%) -- 38.43% chance to 3HKO

APatchouli Modest Mana Burst
124-148 (34.06 - 40.65%) -- 55.81% chance to 3HKO


AFTER CALM MIND

Yumemi Timid Luster Purge
126-150 (34.61 - 41.2%) -- 70.17% chance to 3HKO

Yumemi Timid Mana Burst
96-114 (26.37 - 31.31%) -- possible 4HKO

Dark Alice Timid Luster Purge
134-162 (36.81 - 44.5%) -- 99.93% chance to 3HKO

Dark Alice Timid Mana Burst
102-122 (28.02 - 33.51%) -- possible 4HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor
78-93 (21.42 - 25.54%) -- possible 5HKO

AdYukari Modest Draco Meteor +2
156-184 (42.85 - 50.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

AUtsuho Timid Energy Ball
53-63 (14.56 - 17.3%) -- 9HKO at best

AUtsuho Timid Air Slash
51-60 (14.01 - 16.48%) -- 9HKO at best

TToyohime Modest Earth Power
108-128 (29.67 - 35.16%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Rikako Timid Psycho Boost
164-194 (45.05 - 53.29%) -- 1.17% chance to 2HKO

Rikako Timid Mana Burst
104-126 (28.57 - 34.61%) -- possible 4HKO

ARin Timid Binding Voice
84-98 (23.07 - 26.92%) -- possible 5HKO

APatchouli Modest Mana Burst
84-100 (23.07 - 27.47%) -- possible 5HKO

Calm Mind is Shingyoku's best friend. I know that I've said this before, but it's important enough that it deserves saying again. Extrasensory and Flamethrower/Fire Blast are your STABs, and most efficient ways of attacking. Flamethrower is better if you want Shingyoku to stay in for a long time, while Fire Blast is for hitting hard on a predicted switch, then getting the hell out. (Or not; depends on what is sent out) The reliability of your recovery move depends on what set you're running. If you run the slightly more situational Calm set, Rest can be a life saver due to it taking off statuses like Toxic, which is a huge deal for Shingyoku; however, it can also put you in danger since opponents can send in physical Beast/Earth/Reason types while you are sleeping. Pain Split is nice since it damages enemies and heals you at the same time, but can be even more situational than Rest since it only works if your enemy is healthier than you are.


Other Options
  Will o Wisp - Wisp is a great way to deal with physical attackers, meaning it can help out with one of Shingyoku's biggest issues. With proper predicting, you can burn the opponent when they switch in. It's arguable that you could get one of her team mates to use this for her, but it serves as a nice addition nonetheless.
  Shadow Ball - Despite being her only usable coverage on Reason types, it isn't incredibly useful. I ran this move for months and it rarely served any good purpose. However, it can help her deal with the occasional Reason/Faith type, since they resist both of your STABs.
  Substitute - Another option for when you expect the opponent to switch. It can be useful for letting you properly choose which move to use. Just don't expect it to block out Toxic or anything - you're still one of the slowest puppets around.
  Spite - While not usually the best move, Spite's 3-6 PP decrease range (including the PP required to use the attack) gets buffed to a nice 4-7 when using Shingyoku, due to Pressure. This can be amazing for when trying to stall puppets who were blessed with reliable recovery, as well as ruining the PP of puppets trying to smash you with big attacks. If you can decide on which move to get replaced, then go ahead and try it.


Team Support
Keeping Shingyoku healthy is one of the biggest issues with her. Keeping her at high HP is important, but she's so slow that she's bound to take lots of hits. Fortunately, team-support is a thing that exists, so you should probably give it a try.
  Spinners - Incredibly useful, as that 25% damage caused by spikes puts Shingyoku at a severe disadvantage. DHina and DMeiling can be useful due to their high Defense stats which compliment Shingyoku, but you may want to go for something that doesn't share a weakness to Reason, like Kogasa.
  Clerics - As I mentioned before, Toxic is a huge deal for Shingyokus that don't run Rest. Getting Toxic off Shingyoku is vital to her success. TYuuka tends to work well, since she can use Aromatherapy along with Leech Seed for Shingyoku & company to abuse.
  Spikes - Gives Shingyoku a nice edge to her attacks. Shingyoku with +1 Sp.Atk can 2HKO Calm DDaiyousei with Fire Blast after one layer of Spikes, and can 2HKO her with Flamethrower after three layers of Spikes. They also let her make quick waste of Yumemi, who just barely manages to bulk out Flamethrower when Spikes aren't set. Sakuya and Mamizou are great spike setters, since they can also disable opponents with accurate freezes and sleep. (Respectively)
  Star, HStar and HNazrin can all pass over Barrier to Shingyoku, which can give her a much needed edge on her Defense. Calm Shingyoku can take three Earthquakes from Jolly ASuwako after Barrier, and four Earthquakes after two Barriers. This works especially well when running Rest, since it can be used to stall out the opponent's PP. (Which is easy because oh hey Pressure)


Counters
  A full HP Shingyoku is an annoying Shingyoku, simply due to the fact that she refuses to be OHKO'd. For example, Adamant AYuugi's Earthquake has a 6% chance of OHKOing Bold Shingyoku, while the other 94% gives her a chance to do whatever the hell it is she's trying to do. (And it must be a damn good reason if she's staying in on AYuugi)
But with that said, any Earth type with at least 125 base Attack can OHKO her with banded Earthquake.
  She also tends to incapable of doing any impressive damage unless you let her set up, so any Super-Effective Physical hit is likely to 2HKO her, even if Bold, with no major damage done to your puppet. (Unless she hits a weakness) For this reason, Speed Rin with Flash Fire can make a solid counter for her, since Heat Claw does 56.04 - 66.48% of Shingyoku's health, and Extrasensory can't deal more than half without investment.
  Rest is useful for Shingyoku when she only has special attackers going at her, but it makes her easy bait for practically any physical attacker that can hit her for more than NFE damage, even if she's running Bold.
  Shingyoku has a huge problem keeping at high HP. She may be annoying when she first gets sent out, but due to her pathetic speed it's impossible for her to not take damage, and Toxic only makes her situation worse. Non-Rest Shingyokus are easy to ruin with Toxic, and Shingyokus that do run Rest can be baited into using it, which sets herself up for any physical attacker on your team.

3
ROM Hacks + General Discussion / Regarding Advent Sprites on the Wiki
« on: August 04, 2013, 01:02:24 AM »
So yesterday I noticed a problem on the wiki where some people (myself included) wouldn't be able to see the sprites for any of the Advent forms. This problem only happened with the Advent sprites, and didn't affect everybody.

In an attempt to fix this, I've re-uploaded all of the Advent Sprites, which seems to have worked. But of course, I'm only one person, so I'm not sure if it's currently working for all of us.

So as a request to everyone, please go to the wiki and look at the pages for the Advent puppets. Hopefully, you should be able to see their sprites just fine. But if there are any problems or oddities, please let me know and I'll see if I can deal with it or not.

I'm currently unaware if this problem is happening for anything else, since I've looked at every image uploaded to the wiki, and I only had a problem with the Advents.


tl;dr: Look at these pages and tell me if I've fucked them up.


EDIT: I've added a poll at Naï's request (which I probably should have done in the first place), so vote on that based on what you see. If you vote for the "I can see some of them, but not all of them" option, please let me know which ones you can't see.

4
Movesets / Yoshika
« on: April 15, 2013, 12:05:46 AM »

Yoshika  (wiki)

Type: Miasma
Abilities: Minus/Gate Keeper

HP: 140
Attack: 75
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 40
Sp. Defense: 100
Speed: 30

Yoshika is pretty cool. Her offenses aren't too great, but she can take about as many hits as you would expect a zombie to be able to take, and Recover to go along with it. She can be countered fairly easily if the opponent is prepared, but unsuspecting teams will certainly loose a few members to her, if not most of the team.


Stall for as long as your undead body possibly can
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Gate Keeper
Nature: Impish/Careful
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp. Def

Moves:
Recover
Toxic/Night Shade
Will-o-Wisp/Night Shade
Roar/Curse

This set is probably the most reliable, as Recover has an absurd amount of PP, allowing you to stall for days against anything that can't manage to out-damage/luck you. Toxic is your most reliable way of dealing damage, and Will-o-Wisp is for physical attackers, and some special attackers that are immune to poison. Roar it a good option against anything that tries to set up on Yoshika, and also lets you spread burns and poisons among multiple foes. It also makes Yoshika quite capable at crippling foes if you have spikes out. Curse isn't that great when you don't have any direct ways of damaging, but it's her only way of increasing defense (other than Ominous Wind, but why would you use Ominous Wind), and it's not like a speed decrease matters when you're literally as slow as a corpse. Lastly, Night Shade if useful for if status damage is taking too long, and can stop any Puppets with Guts that try anything sneaky. It can also break through substitutes, which is useful if you aren't running Roar.

As for the natures, Impish is the best if you want an even balance between defenses, but Careful will give her a surprisingly high Special Defense, which can be useful since people seem to like sending in special attackers to deal with her.

Other Options:
Poison Jab/Cross-Poison: A good STAB attack that works well with Curse. You could use this instead of Toxic, but it's more situational. Use at your own risk, I suppose.

Memento: Fun for ruining things that can out-damage Yoshika, but doesn't have much use otherwise. I wouldn't advise using it as a way to get rid of things with their stats boosted really high, since Roar can also do that and doesn't KO the user.

Refresh: Not really all that great on Yoshika. She's already immune to poison, and paralysis' speed nerf doesn't really do anything on her. If you're really that worried about status, you should probably just use a Lum berry. Though with that said, it can still be a handy move if you're willing to spend a move slot on it.

Block: Fun for keeping in Puppets that have Natural Cure, or really don't want to take a status. Though if you do plan on using this, then keep in mind that it's usually a better idea to use Block BEFORE using Toxic or Will-o-Wisp.

Counters:
  Tensoku, Mimi-chan, and ASuwako with Water Veil all make her immediately useless, unless she's already managed to get a few curses up and is running Night Shade. But even then, she doesn't stand much chance against something that makes 90% of her most reliable moves obsolete.
  If she isn't running Night Shade, then you can also try using just about anything with Substitute and Gate Keeper/Soundproof, or just plain Substitute if she isn't running Roar either.
  Brute forcing her with strong Reason-types like Yumemi and Dark Alice is also an option, as long as you're okay with taking a status (Though Yumemi is probably more useful, since she can also take advantage of the previously mentioned Substitute/Soundproof set).
  For Yoshika sets that aren't running attacks that do direct damage, you can also use Restalk. Hell, you could probably even do this for Night Shade sets, since most of the Puppets that can actually use Restalk efficiently (Hi DYuyuko) have enough HP to shrug off 100 damage per turn. Though keep in mind that this method usually ends in painfully long stall-wars, and Yoshika can easily just switch out while you sleep.
  I suppose I should also mention Taunt a some point, but Gen 3 Taunt is dumb and easy to predict and is really dumb.

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