Touhou Puppet Play Forums

Touhou Puppet Play => Creative Conundrum => Topic started by: GlitchyMissingno on August 31, 2015, 09:27:50 PM

Title: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: GlitchyMissingno on August 31, 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Does anyone know if someone's already working on puppets for Sumireko Usami and the LoLK characters? If there isn't anyone doing so, I say that we should work together to make them. If you guys think it's a good idea, I'll set up a checklist of things we'll need and start working on it.

9/1/15 Edit: Since it looks like this is taking off, I'm gonna document our ideas and set up a checklist.

Typings:
Spoiler
Sumireko: Reason
Seiran: Beast/Reason, Heart, Beast/Dark or Heart/Grass
Ringo: Beast, Heart, Beast/Dream, Heart/Dream or Heart/Water
Doremy: Heart or Reason
Sagume: Flying/Steel, Faith/Steel, or Faith/Flying
Clownpiece: Heart, Dark/Nature, Flying/Nature, Flying/Fire, Fire/Nature, Fire/Reason, Fire/Heart, or Fire/Dark
Junko: Heart, Heart/Illusion, Dark, Ghost, Dark/Ghost, Ghost/Heart or Fire/Ghost
Hecatia: Faith (Chibi) Faith/Earth (Evolved), Faith/Dark (Evolved), Faith/Heart (Evolved), Heart/Dark, or Earth/Dark
Abilities:
Spoiler
Doremy: Insomnia
Sagume: Levitate (If she doesn't get Flying type)
Clownpiece: Serene Grace/Shadow Tag
Junko: Pure Power or No Guard/Sheer Force
Movesets:
Spoiler
Seiran: Special version of Brick Break?
Ringo: Slack-off?
Doremy: Defensive and Sleep-based moves
Clownpiece: Status-inflicting moves
Junko: Moves like Haze and Rapid Spin
Stat Spreads:
Spoiler
Ringo: Bulky
Doremy: Defensive
Shard Evos:
Spoiler
None yet
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 01, 2015, 05:53:05 AM
Well, the main thing that i want to say about this is that Doremy, despite her abilities should not be a Dream-type puppet. Because TPP Dream type is everything but not about dreams and nightmares.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Wrulfang on September 01, 2015, 03:35:31 PM
I think I hear the guys of TPDP were doing them on the DLC or something.

I doubt anyone sane would care about editing them into their roms or something.

However we could still being creative and think about them.

Like drewko said, 1.8 dream type is more of a fighting type that anything else. Maybe in TPDP dream type if it was something more that a type so every puppet has a completely neutral move as an starting move.

I would say Clownpiece as dark/nature, with serene grace and access to the most oxonovius moves.
Junko as Heart, or heart/Illusion, with pure power as hability, althought I think it would fit more No guard or Sheer force. Maybe in a 4th gen enviorement, Heart/Illusion with Normalice or No Guard. Like all his spells are pure bullets withoth any special effect, Normalize would make sense on her.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 01, 2015, 06:27:42 PM
Junko could also be a Dark-type because she purify herself and is now divine spirit of her own grudge. Moveset-wise she can use Haze and maybe some kind of Rapid Spin-like signature move? Dark/Ghost or Dark/Heart is the best option imho.

Clownpiece is everything but Dark. Flying/Nature or Flying/Fire with Serene Grace sounds crazy. Heck, too bad that Entertaiment is Gen V move because i could see her with Insanity (This is the name of Hustle in Touhoumon, right?) as secondary ability just to spread... Insanity.

Sagume... Flying/Steel? Faith/Steel? Dunno, her ability is pretty complicated to recreate in gen III so giving her typing based on her look is much better than bullshiting or creating another bland Illusion/Something. Flying/Steel or Faith/Steel with Levitate is the best option.

Hecatia... eh. She could have 3 formes - Earth/Dark, Faith/Dark and umm... ehh... Heart/Dark for Dream World?

Doremy should be defensive Heart-type with Insomia and some sleep-based moves. That's all.

Ringo and Seiran are hardest to think. We realy, REALY don't need another Beast-types. Maybe Ringo could work as bulky Beast-type with Slack-off. Beast/Reason Seiran with signature reason-type brick break could be interesting.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Wrulfang on September 01, 2015, 06:35:37 PM
I said dark/nature, because is a fairy from Hell.

Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: GlitchyMissingno on September 01, 2015, 07:43:57 PM
For Ringo and Seiran, I was thinking that they would be Heart types, but that was just operating off the fact that Reisen, another moon rabbit, was also a Heart type.

Doremy is definitely a tricky one to figure out, but I really liked Drewko's idea.

Sagume and Hecatia should both be Faith types given the fact that they're both Goddesses. I was thinking Faith/Flying for Sagume and (initially) pure Faith for Hecatia. She would gain a secondary typing through her evolutions. Through leveling, she would become Faith/Dark with her Moon form. Through shards, you could get her Earth form (Faith/Earth) or her Dream World form (Faith/Heart?).

While Dark/Nature sounds good for Clownpiece, I personally prefer Fire/Nature.

I think Junko should either be pure Dark, pure Ghost, or Dark/Ghost.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Zak-something on September 01, 2015, 08:31:54 PM
I'm pretty badly uninforme on LoLK's characters, but I think Ringo should be part Dream type, since her iirc she eats and gains physical strength from it.
i was thinking Blewi could be Beast/Dark but thats EXACTLY the same typing as the Tewi form that even has the mallet so uh.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Doesnt on September 02, 2015, 12:04:09 AM
Why would Doremy be anything but Dream-type
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: GlitchyMissingno on September 02, 2015, 12:19:20 AM
Why would Doremy be anything but Dream-type
I had the same question initially, but then Drewko and Wrulfang pointed out that TPP's dream-type is really more of a Fighting-type stand-in than anything. Plus, look at Mugetsu and Gengetsu. Neither of them are Dream-types despite the fact that they both created a dream world.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 05, 2015, 02:35:50 AM
Then again, there are a few weird things with dream that don't act like fighting types at all, like Kotohime, Ellen, CKana, and Koishi. All of those but CKana are also part heart though, so no doubting that Doremy would be heart-typed.

Didn't Junko's bio mention something about being "pure grudge?" I don't want to suggest ANOTHER faith/dark or faith/ghost, but...
I do really support Hecatia getting different types based on shard form, though.

Dark/nature's also something I really support, if only because it only has one rep at this point. (Kazami)
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 05, 2015, 12:18:19 PM
But DARK does not work with image of Trollish, Funny and Silly Fairy. The only "Dark" thing in Clownpiece is that she's from Hell. I think that because of being purified life force DARK does not work with her at all.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 06, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
But DARK does not work with image of Trollish, Funny and Silly Fairy. The only "Dark" thing in Clownpiece is that she's from Hell. I think that because of being purified life force DARK does not work with her at all.
*Looks at Tewi, Seija, & DYukari* uh...

If you don't want nature/dark, then would mono-nature, nature/faith, or nature/heart work in that case? (nature/faith does sound absurd for a fairy, though.)
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: andaltmorf on September 07, 2015, 07:16:31 AM
Everything I've seen on Clownpiece suggests Fire/Reason, to be honest.

Fire for the ' 'Murica ' fireworks shenanigans and her torch, Reason because it has SO MANY moves that inflict confusion. It is her job to infuriate people (primarily people from the moon) and drive them (literally!) crazy. So things like Swagger and Will o Wisp and such pain-in-the-neck moves should be at her disposal, to infuriate her enemies, presumably backed up by a fairly good S.Att since she is apparently just as strong as a Kishin/Oni due to being 'refined'.

But that's just my understanding of the matter.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 08, 2015, 02:00:29 AM
I would say "well fairies are nature by default" but then again Lily White/Black and Cirno both aren't nature-typed. Especially noticeable with Lily White since she has a spring connection and everything and is still not nature-typed. Then again, "pure life force" kind of screams "nature", dosen't it.

Now that you mention fire, that does make sense, but I'd actually suggest heart instead of reason for the same explanation you gave. (since heart tends to deal with psychological stuff, and it's main special STAB (signal beam) is confusion-inducing.
Dark could also work for the whole "infuriating people" part, although good luck not being outclassed by Flandre in that case, especially since I can't see Clownpiece being defensive...

No this is not me reaching for fire/heart after kokoro was denied it shaddup
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 08, 2015, 02:36:10 PM
Dunno, Clownpiece just does not scream "Dark" to me. It's too cheerful and not that malicious when you think about this, especially considering that she's pure LIFE force and life is not about dark and evil things.
Fire/Heart seems legit. Will o'Wisp is kind of a trollish move, much like confusion stuff. And she's got a momijitrucking torch in her hand. Quick-and-specially-offensive support/troll with few DARK-, NATURE- and REASON- coverage moves sound cool.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 09, 2015, 01:13:50 AM
And she's got a momijitrucking torch in her hand.
You may or may not have invented a new insult here. :3
But yeah, fire/heart is a pretty cool typing, not to mention signal beam still induces confusion so it fits on that department
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Wrulfang on September 09, 2015, 03:06:52 PM
I keep my position on dark/mature
While signal beam is the signature confusing heart attack, I differ madness from confusion.

Also, moves like taunt, torment, swagger (on thpp) are dark.


About lily being monoheart, I would compare it with the florges line. Pure fairy even if the mon itself is more flowers than any other thing. Also lily white is only related about anouncing spring. Not even related to flower, blooming, temperature or daylight increase. Is like El corte InglÚs, the only relation between them is that they announce it.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 09, 2015, 10:01:25 PM
Now that I think about it, dark/nature and heart/fire are literal opposites in terms of typing, aren't they?

As for Florges, I still find it dumb that it's not fairy/grass to be 100% honest. I can see it for the pre-evolutions but I still think forges should have been fairy/grass. Chalk it up to personal opinion there.

Right now my vote's on heart/fire, but only because that's a unique typing compared to kazami's dark/nature, not to mention her cards involve a lot of lasers. (...and moons, actually. Might earth possibly be another type consideration in that case?)
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: andaltmorf on September 11, 2015, 09:28:43 PM
Having looked a bit more at gameplay of Clownpiece, I would continue to recommend Fire/Heart or Fire/Dark, but considering how almost ALL of her spellcards are dubbed "Prison Sign" and involve trapping the player in a small, dangerous box via walls of fireball danmaku, I would like to recommend Clownpiece have Shadow Tag for her ability. To better reflect her tendency to imprison an opponent and then torch their face off.

Rather fitting for a denizen of Hell, even if she is a fairy.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 12, 2015, 07:43:51 AM
Shadow Tag Troll/Special Sweeper... oh god this is just horrible. I want it now!
And remember: There are two slots for Abilities (three if we can shit on gen III mechanics and give puppets hidden abilities). So there's no reason to resign from Serene Grace if we want to give Clownpiece Shadow Tag. Actually, i can imagine her now with two or even more sets - one based on Burn/Confusion trollage with Serene Graced Flamethrowers and Signal Beams and second that would be Revenge killer with Shadow Tag and strong coverage.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Yakumo_Shun on September 12, 2015, 06:06:09 PM
Dunno, Clownpiece just does not scream "Dark" to me. It's too cheerful and not that malicious when you think about this, especially considering that she's pure LIFE force and life is not about dark and evil things.
Fire/Heart seems legit. Will o'Wisp is kind of a trollish move, much like confusion stuff. And she's got a momijitrucking torch in her hand. Quick-and-specially-offensive support/troll with few DARK-, NATURE- and REASON- coverage moves sound cool.
She's a hell fairy. Her typing would either be Dark/Fire, Fire/Nature(Reason), or Dark/Nature(Reason). Personally, I think the prior fits the best.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on September 12, 2015, 07:47:08 PM
Rin, Utsuho, Satori and Koishi are from former hell.
Eiki resident mostly in hell.
Byakuren was sealed away in Makai that is somewhat similiar to hell.

None of these is DARK. So still, Clownpiece should not be DARK because... this type is for characters that are clearly evil and malicious in nature, like Remilia and Mima, or characters that have darkness or black colour in theme, like Rumia and Lilly Black.
Clownpiece is neither evil or black. She's just resident of hell that is also fun-loving fairy, with pretty bright personality and costume. Not every fairy is Nature-typed, and it does not work with her battle style, so nope.
Fire/Heart or Fire/Reason are only valid options. Dark is not because Clownpiece is not evil/black. And Nature is not because Clownpiece is not type of character that would shoot leaves/vines/sunlight/sounds of nature on her enemies.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Wrulfang on September 12, 2015, 10:38:10 PM
Well, then go with fire/reason.

Let's see how they type her in the TPDP dlc
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Neotornado on September 14, 2015, 03:25:13 PM
I'm still going with fire/heart here for the simple reason that signal beam scores confusion, mana burst does not. (also tri-attack for serene grace shenanigans)

Also if it get shadow tag it's pretty much getting insta-banned, no questions asked. XD
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Game2014 on September 16, 2015, 07:48:54 AM
Official Pokemon Typing:
Sumireko: Psychic
Seiran: Grass (because of wooden hammer)
Ringo: Normal/Water (want to be more creative than just Normal, so chose Water due to fighting her over a lake)
Doremy: Psychic
Sagume: Flying/Ice (her appearance screams Ice-type to me, and also because her stage theme has "Frozen Capital" in it)
Clownpiece: Fairy
Junko: Fire/Ghost (Fire because of the fire-like energy behind her and Ghost because she is a divine spirit that is a "grudge incarnate")
Hecatia: Rock/Dark (Rock because of her "planets" and Dark because she comes from hell)

1.8 Typing:
Sumireko: Reason
Seiran: Heart/Grass
Ringo: Heart/Water
Doremy: Reason
Sagume: Flying/Faith
Clownpiece: Heart
Junko: Fire/Ghost
Hecatia: Earth/Dark



Sagume and Hecatia should both be Faith types given the fact that they're both Goddesses.
Being a goddess doesn't necessary mean they should be Faith-type.  The Aki Sisters and Hina are goddesses but aren't Faith-type.  Plus, I don't think many people wants to worship the goddess of hell (Hecatia)...
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Rejnka on November 24, 2015, 04:43:00 AM
Fire/Heart Clownpiece is definitely what I would support.
Junko shouldn't have a type nor an ability. And her stats will be 90 all around. The same goes for her chibi, with 40 all around. She also learns Nasty Plot and nothing else, other than all TMs and HMs.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on November 24, 2015, 05:48:16 PM
There's no such type as "no type" and no ability like "no ability".
Even Gamefreak decided to give Ghost-typing for Curse, and second ???-type attack is... Struggle.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: DerxwnaKapsyla on November 24, 2015, 08:33:22 PM
By a technicality, it is possible for something to have no ability, you just have to not define one at all. The Pseudo-type ??? doesn't work properly iirc and it's not worth using. Also Curse only got a typing in Gen 4 onward, in Gen 3 it was still ???.

That being said, nah.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on November 27, 2015, 12:16:57 PM
I just realized something...
Wind typing for Clownpiece would be at least interesting, mostly because in TPP this is the counterpart of electric-type, and it is used by Lt.Surge... who is a Lightning American.

And outside of this "logic" - paraflinch bullshit.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Wrulfang on November 28, 2015, 12:13:12 PM
By a technicality, it is possible for something to have no ability, you just have to not define one at all. The Pseudo-type ??? doesn't work properly iirc and it's not worth using. Also Curse only got a typing in Gen 4 onward, in Gen 3 it was still ???.

That being said, nah.
I I recall properly, eggs were ??? type at least in gen III, but not 100% sure
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Rejnka on January 12, 2016, 10:42:23 AM
??? type is in fact a thing in Gens up to the 4. Although, in Gen 1 it was called "Bird" and Missingno had it along with Normal.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on February 10, 2016, 12:34:24 AM
Are there any sprites of Sumi & co. ready? I have a tentative plan of making my own romhack and adding in our take on these puppets, but the best we could find (Tohofes) does not offer backsprites.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Zak-something on February 17, 2016, 01:20:59 AM
Sumireko
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=50589538
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=50576909
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=50694331
Junko
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=54803192
Sagume
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=54702339

Sadly no backsprites
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on February 17, 2016, 08:24:35 PM
Still no backsprites. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
Where did Neo get the ones he uses in Tweaked? There has to be someone somewhere who made them.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Zak-something on February 17, 2016, 08:54:54 PM
I don think Tweaked even has LoLK puppets yet
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on February 17, 2016, 08:58:58 PM
I meant for the DDC puppets. In any case I found them by combing Pixiv.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Drewko on February 21, 2016, 08:23:38 AM
Heh, i don't know if people are into japanese Touhou Popularity Pools but on the last one, one of the surprises was very hight (77th) position of Nameless Fortune Teller that was exterminated by Reimu in FS. He just deserve to be a puppet.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Zak-something on February 21, 2016, 06:33:37 PM
We still need one for Myouren too.
Anyways, finally finished CJunko

(http://i.imgur.com/zCTJYgx.png)
The backsprite might be kinda awful, sorry. It gets hard to tell what is supposed to be what color because of how JPGs blend adjacent pixels.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on February 21, 2016, 07:15:58 PM
Zak, relax. It is something, that's what it matters.
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Sassy-Chibi-Seiga on March 19, 2016, 12:22:47 AM
Stockpile Ringo Stockpile Ringo Stockpile Ringo

If Hectacia is never given Tri-Attack ever what Hectacia are u runnin
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: OuryuuXIX on July 23, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
I need that sprites to make my Touhoumon hackrom!! So please! Send me the link!!
Title: Re: LoLK and ULiL Puppets!
Post by: Gensomura on August 18, 2017, 04:42:43 PM
Not related to LoLK or ULiL, but worth sharing:

Etarnity Larva
Type: Heart/Nature
BST: 75/80/70/90/65/95

Nemunu Sakata
Type: Steel/Beast or Ground/Steel
BST: 80/75/90/40/90/35

Aunn Komano
Type: Reason/Beast
BST: 85/65/60/70/78/62

I'll probably do the rest of HSiFS characters soon.