Touhou Puppet Play Forums

Touhou Puppet Play => ROM Hacks + General Discussion => Topic started by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 01:51:11 PM

Title: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 01:51:11 PM
While playing Touhoumon Unnamed:
After Brock
Spoiler
(http://puu.sh/hEMkq/98c2d9930b.png)
(http://puu.sh/hEMyo/b33f09cd69.png)
Mt. Moon after surface trainers
Spoiler
(http://puu.sh/hFdVv/1443e461f8.png)
Mt. Moon fossil room
Spoiler
(http://puu.sh/hFRE5/e99c36186d.png)
After Super Nerd
(http://puu.sh/hFSmL/e03724f65e.png)
Party levels are low compared to its enemies and losses are a regularity because of my playstyle, which entails catching, experimenting and having the most varied party possible at every point of the game. Yet what these games seem to be balanced for is a gradually expanding party. Is every Poke/Touhoumon game like this? It sucks to see an experience be not as enjoyable as it could be entirely because of the way I play the game.
Extra:
Pre-Cerulean wilds
Spoiler
(http://puu.sh/hFTVZ/eadc7b66fa.png)
(http://puu.sh/hFTX8/ad939885c4.png)
My playstyle really does not mesh with this game.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Chaos_lord on May 08, 2015, 05:20:38 PM
It's been a little while since my playthrough, but generally you'll always be a little bit behind if you go for a full team and don't grind. That being said If you're clever you can turn those high-level wilds to your advantage for a while and tailor your team to the fights. That being said you may want to go do vermillion things before giving misty a serious go, her last mon is a really awkward type combo to take down if you didn't start Sanae and it has the evolution stat advantage.

Once you start evolving(you start getting shards after cut) you should have enough of a team to keep one and start getting EV's and good support moves to make up for the level difference until around Blaine/Giovanni. Until then make use of the fact you don't have to grind new members of your team to keep up and experiment with the local mons, win with type advantages and don't be afraid to use items or run back to the center every few fights. That Shizua for example is 2 levels off of sleep powder and can then abuse AI's inability to switch with growl spam or give another team member a turn or 2 to do something.

Don't be afraid to catch a few of each mon you want either and take the best one, decent IV's and nature can be worth a few levels on their own and unnamed makes spotting how good a mon is easy.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 05:36:06 PM
Wow... impressive response. Finally one that directly deals with my concerns instead of simply telling me "It was your choice, deal with it yourself" in regards to my playstyle.

I just think something isn't quite right in what you said:
Quote
abuse AI's inability to switch with growl spam
I'm pretty sure I've seen trainers switch (Rocket Grunts in Mt. Moon, iirc)
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Chaos_lord on May 08, 2015, 06:24:04 PM
Wow... impressive response. Finally one that directly deals with my concerns instead of simply telling me "It was your choice, deal with it yourself" in regards to my playstyle.

I just think something isn't quite right in what you said:
I'm pretty sure I've seen trainers switch (Rocket Grunts in Mt. Moon, iirc)

Do they? I don't remember the AI switching much at all unless they are completely walled but then again I used stuff like attract(Daiyousei learns it naturally) and sleep that gave them a chance to act. If they do switch out though you could probably use that to your advantage too as it's a free turn and the mon swapped out will still be snoozing. If you figure out how many growls are needed to trigger the switch even better as you now out-predict them.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: KuroShinki on May 08, 2015, 06:51:32 PM
And you haven't seen Achiya Sanae hacks! The nightmares still torture me at night...

I haven't tried Unnamed (what is holding me are those musics...ugh), but I guess the best you can do is to have patience. Play following your play stile: I usually build my team according to my preferences and what I have at disposal, and can still have the upper hand.

And if you haven't tried, you can play Touhumon Purple. I love it because I think it's the most balanced without stupid difficulty spikes.

The rest I think it's the Pokemon mechanics that are terrible, like super-effective that literally destroy the enemy. I would love a Pokèmon game where a battle lasts more than 2 turn...and sadly Touhoumon is not the case. Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: joshcja on May 08, 2015, 07:05:24 PM
Just solo the game to exp share/koga with Alice. Catch Flying/Illusion resant thing with killmurder stats, grab 5 dorks for VR, win. The games pretty much made to go fast in. The games actually pretty "GET TO THE CHOPPAH" friendly. Though you miss out on some of the more amusing dick kicks.

The whole "3 starters thing" is a lie. thats pretty much your difficulty curve

Sanae: Hell mode all the way, good fuckin luck on the champ.

Reisen: Hell mode until you get AdReisen, then GG

Alice: Roflstomp the first 4 gyms then never use again unless you save her for dark tome. Then she just stomps the first 2 gyms.

Edit: Achiya hacks aren't difficult, just super grindy and mistaking "kill all fun" with "is 2hu difficult"

2nd Edit: Iv's are ranked, just catch all the things and use only good iv mons to build your e4 team. Its not like your style is suffering just your able to make more informed decisions.

3rd edit: Use birds
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Neotornado on May 08, 2015, 07:15:52 PM
The rest I think it's the Pokemon mechanics that are terrible, like super-effective that literally destroy the enemy. I would love a Pokèmon game where a battle lasts more than 2 turn...and sadly Touhoumon is not the case. Or am I missing something?
Funny thing is that it actually is possible to edit super-effective hits to do less or more then x2 damage. Anything from 0.1x damage on a super-effective hit to something like 64x effectiveness depending on the hex.

Also if you feel afraid of being underleveled, abuse the Vs. seeker like crazy. It's amazing for getting easy EXP and money.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
And if you haven't tried, you can play Touhumon Purple. I love it because I think it's the most balanced without stupid difficulty spikes.
You would not like to know what Purple made of me. Suffice to say it was bad enough to make Agastya himself snap and go all "you suck" on me.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Neotornado on May 08, 2015, 07:37:44 PM
I feel like I'll get yelled at for this, but have you tried touhoumon Merry's version (or aqua version, I forget which name he uses for it) or touhoumon blue? Both of those hacks are much easier compared to Purple/UnNamed.
Touhoumon blue can be found here: http://thpp.supersanctuary.net/forum/index.php?topic=456.0
While Touhoumon Merry/Aqua can be found here: http://aqua-istishia.tumblr.com/ (it's in the sidebar)
Both are 1.5-based compared to UnNamed/purple's 1.8 base, so it's a little different in comparison, but I still recommend them both.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 07:42:26 PM
While Touhoumon Merry/Aqua can be found here: http://aqua-istishia.tumblr.com/ (it's in the sidebar)
The only time I played Aqua+Yui, I met wilds that could waste my CMarisa starter with ease. At level 5. On Route 1. The only thing safe for her to wail on is CMystia, and picking on CAlice is sheer disaster. How's this easy?

I'll admit Blue is very very easy, though.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: KuroShinki on May 08, 2015, 08:04:47 PM
And if you haven't tried, you can play Touhumon Purple. I love it because I think it's the most balanced without stupid difficulty spikes.
You would not like to know what Purple made of me. Suffice to say it was bad enough to make Agastya himself snap and go all "you suck" on me.

Well, I'm not saying it's a walk in the park, I'm saying that is the most balanced, but it has it's grindy part. The other day I just grinded for like 10h or so with turbo and Foreground Eclipse from lv 70 to 100 for Elite 4 in Purple, and I still struggled, because I'm stupid and didn't take a rest.

Edit: Achiya hacks aren't difficult, just super grindy and mistaking "kill all fun" with "is 2hu difficult"

ZReimu at lv 36 or something like that. Mirror Coat doesn't count. Even if you grind, it still a lucky shot. And ZSanae with Wonder Guard. They are a grindfest, and that's a bad way of making a game hard and challenging.

As I stated in another post, I think this "Touhou is hard, so fangames have to be hard" should just die. All of the fan games I played are hard or unfair, like Soccer or Touhouvania. It doesn't help that I'm not a skilled player at all, except for Dead or Alive or Dynasty Warriors.
The rest I think it's the Pokemon mechanics that are terrible, like super-effective that literally destroy the enemy. I would love a Pokèmon game where a battle lasts more than 2 turn...and sadly Touhoumon is not the case. Or am I missing something?
Funny thing is that it actually is possible to edit super-effective hits to do less or more then x2 damage. Anything from 0.1x damage on a super-effective hit to something like 64x effectiveness depending on the hex.

I would like to do so, because it's pretty funny when I'm training with puppets that are 10 levels higher than me and can still win thanks to super-effective. And my poor DMomiji could stand a chance against super-effective special (Fire is excluded, dat 4x damage).

These are my opinions anyway. I still think that Touhoumon is awesome, but it requires patience to play compared to Pokèmon.

EDIT: I was wondering: how hard is a nutzlocke of Touhoumon?
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Neotornado on May 08, 2015, 09:11:53 PM
as someone who has nuzlocked touhoumon, here's my opinions on how difficult the hacks are to nuzlocke:
Aqua + yui/merry's version and blue version are both pretty smooth for nuzlocking, just watch out for brock's onis in the first gym fight.
Purple version is Very hard compared to normal pokemon. It's doable, but you will need to teambuild for the E4, and possibly even for some of the later fights. (or you could grind up to lv 90+ but that's not exactly sporting.)
UnNamed: At the moment I haven't actually completed this but imagine purple version but even harder.
If you did want to try nuzlocking a touhuomon game, I'd recommend aqua + merry, blue version, or even tweaked. (shameless plug I know)
I wouldn't try purple unless you are already good at nuzlocking. XD Something to note is that both purple and tweaked include a level guide with their downloads, which is a massive help in gauging how you are leveled in comparison to everything.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: KuroShinki on May 08, 2015, 09:25:34 PM
as someone who has nuzlocked touhoumon, here's my opinions on how difficult the hacks are to nuzlocke:
Aqua + yui/merry's version and blue version are both pretty smooth for nuzlocking, just watch out for brock's onis in the first gym fight.
Purple version is Very hard compared to normal pokemon. It's doable, but you will need to teambuild for the E4, and possibly even for some of the later fights. (or you could grind up to lv 90+ but that's not exactly sporting.)
UnNamed: At the moment I haven't actually completed this but imagine purple version but even harder.
If you did want to try nuzlocking a touhuomon game, I'd recommend aqua + merry, blue version, or even tweaked. (shameless plug I know)
I wouldn't try purple unless you are already good at nuzlocking. XD Something to note is that both purple and tweaked include a level guide with their downloads, which is a massive help in gauging how you are leveled in comparison to everything.

I see. I never did a nutzlocke, so probably I'll try doing a Pokèmon one first (of Silver, my favourite Pokèmon game ^_^). Then,  I'll definitely try a nutzlocke of a Touhoumon. Hope it will turn fun.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: Unyubaby on May 08, 2015, 11:00:51 PM
With regards to the nuzlocke, I did a Nuzlocke on Touhoumon Emerald (the hard one with Champion Nitori). It wasn't at all that bad. Gave spots to train off wild Pokemon for the first and third gyms. Though yes rematching trainers can end up being death (stupid Beauty Jessica and her Level 80 Yuugenma), it was overall pretty good. Definitely not as grind heavy as a Nuzlocke of Insane Version is (Note that I'm very crazy).

As for overall difficulty, seeing those levels and such right after Brock isn't too bad, though I can see why it would cause problems with the experimenting playstyle. I've personally never played that way, so my advice is pretty flimsy. But it is pretty difficult to match up with rom hacks and your playstyle, since the person who made the hack has the final say on what playstyle they feel would be best. Like a "hard" rom hack would have the grind heavy style while a "casual" rom hack would be more for experimenting. You don't want the game to be too easy, but you also don't want it to be too hard. It's pretty difficult to balance. I'd try out several different hacks and see if one fits.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 08, 2015, 11:42:42 PM
Sigh... I've actually "defected" back into Pokemon. Every single Touhoumon edit is a huge pain to play through.
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: KuroShinki on May 09, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
Sigh... I've actually "defected" back into Pokemon. Every single Touhoumon edit is a huge pain to play through.

You can always try Moemon if you want to change a little: no differences aside for the sprites.

I agree with the part of the pain tough. If I really want to play a nice and relaxing Touhou RPG, I'll go with Pocket Wars. It doesn't have every character, but at least is much more forgiving and easier (but it isn't balanced at all, there are some OP character there too).
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: AngelG No. 55 on May 09, 2015, 03:33:14 PM
Quote
If I really want to play a nice and relaxing Touhou RPG
Between my indecision and my instability, I'm playing Touhoumon Blue again - the Zeph version (http://thpp.supersanctuary.net/forum/index.php?topic=456.0), that is. It was just a bit grindy due to my playstyle but I've actually found it more fun than vanilla Emerald (2hus > pokeymangs).
Quote
You can always try Moemon if you want to change a little: no differences aside for the sprites.
Hmmm, a cursory Google reveals several such patches. How can I tell which ones just change sprites?
Title: Re: Is every single hack like this?
Post by: KuroShinki on May 09, 2015, 04:08:47 PM
Quote
If I really want to play a nice and relaxing Touhou RPG
Between my indecision and my instability, I'm playing Touhoumon Blue again - the Zeph version (http://thpp.supersanctuary.net/forum/index.php?topic=456.0), that is. It was just a bit grindy due to my playstyle but I've actually found it more fun than vanilla Emerald (2hus > pokeymangs).
Quote
You can always try Moemon if you want to change a little: no differences aside for the sprites.
Hmmm, a cursory Google reveals several such patches. How can I tell which ones just change sprites?

I use this one, since it's the best looking one, and you can easily change the evolution method (like trade or day/night):

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/40418-ips-moemon-fire-red-revival-project-updated-4-1-2015/

There is a Emerald one too, with the same sprites:

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/44698-ipsmoemon-project-revival-rse-10514-update/

They do nothing aside changing sprite (Blastoise is my favourite: so badass). I usually use them with a randomizer ^_^

Offcourse, I suggested Moemon if you don't mind girl that cosplay Pokèmon. Some can find this disturbing or hilarious.