Touhou Puppet Play Forums

Shoddy Battle 2 => General Metagame => Topic started by: DoctorShanks on January 20, 2014, 02:48:21 AM

Title: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on January 20, 2014, 02:48:21 AM
Something I (and hopefully others) have been interested in as of late have been Double Battles. It's been around for a while, it has started being played by competitive communities recently (Smogon), and it is a nice change of pace from Singles. Puppets and strategies that see little use in Standard might really shine in Doubles. What I'm requesting here is a simple Doubles ladder/rule-set that we can click and enjoy, with a reset ban-list(?) bar the Cross puppets, and maybe some important bug fixes provided that they aren't too time consuming to fix (Guard is a big one, as is Lightningrod).

Of course, I'm talking as though Doubles hasn't been a thing since the server began. Doubles is there, but it's incomplete with certain things not working, some being a bigger deal than others:

-Guard***
-Cancel Button*****************
-Lightningrod (are there any other abilities besides this that don't exactly work?)
-New puppets are sent out immediately after a puppet faints or after a "Spread move" finishes hitting all targets.
-Hyper Voice? (How does it work on Shoddy?)
-Transform, Recollection, and Snatch might want to see a bit of use? Not sure about this either.

Would you play it? Support? Thoughts? Speculation? Theorymoning?
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: Rhetco on January 20, 2014, 02:51:27 AM
I would certainly try it out. I've been playing double a lot recently and it's so much more fun than singles. Touhoumon doubles is definitely a thing that I would be willing to try if we could get some more of the moves to work as intended.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: joshcja on January 20, 2014, 02:07:03 PM
Eh, I'm pretty against any splitting of the already tiny meta/playerbase.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on January 20, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Eh, I'm pretty against any splitting of the already tiny meta/playerbase.

I don' think the player-base would be "splitting" from this. Just because I prefer Doubles doesn't mean I'm going to stop playing Singles from time to time. I just think that we're long overdue for a working Doubles metagame (meaning, the proper functioning of Doubles mechanics and moves).
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: joshcja on January 21, 2014, 01:02:03 AM
-New puppets are sent out immediately after a puppet faints or after a "Spread move" finishes hitting all targets.
-Apparently gen3 had some kind of differences in turn order? Not sure about this.

Just noticed this

Pretty sure the first thing is gen 3 turn order.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: GabrielCVS on January 21, 2014, 01:08:43 AM
I would probably give it a shot, also it would be nice to test new thing more ways to abuse rng and just try different thing also i donīt belive  the user base would suffer too much from it
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on January 21, 2014, 01:12:01 AM
-New puppets are sent out immediately after a puppet faints or after a "Spread move" finishes hitting all targets.
-Apparently gen3 had some kind of differences in turn order? Not sure about this.

Just noticed this

Pretty sure the first thing is gen 3 turn order.

I see. Thanks for the information. I remember reading something like that mentioned in Pokemon Battle Revolution a few years back, but I was young and couldn't make sense of it.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: Doesnt on January 21, 2014, 01:26:37 PM
Another weird thing about Gen 3 is that Sand Stream/Drizzle/Drought fire off the moment a mon is sent out, even if replacements haven't completely filled the field. This isn't a big deal since our only normal weather setters are Sand, but it does mean Uber Doubles wouldn't be very fun as weather wars come down to who Player 2 is rather than reverse speed creep.

(Trace and Intimidate wait for every slot to be on the field before firing, and the only other start-of-battle ability is Forecast)
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: Doesnt on March 08, 2014, 12:15:27 AM
So I never mentioned it in this thread apparently, but it might be worth noting that not only do spread moves in Gen 3 have a 50% damage penalty (as opposed to the 75% in later gens), but Explosion, Earthquake, and SelfDestruct don't count as spread moves for the purposes of this penalty. Enjoy your Mimi-chan+Earth centralized meta!

(hahaha now who was it that said sendai was balanced for doubles)
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on March 10, 2014, 03:18:24 AM
So I never mentioned it in this thread apparently, but it might be worth noting that not only do spread moves in Gen 3 have a 50% damage penalty (as opposed to the 75% in later gens), but Explosion, Earthquake, and SelfDestruct don't count as spread moves for the purposes of this penalty. Enjoy your Mimi-chan+Earth centralized meta!

(hahaha now who was it that said sendai was balanced for doubles)

That's honestly terrifying, but also exciting to think about.

Theorymon:
-Mimi-chan, if unprepared for, can explode for full damage alongside a ghost type partner such as Kogasa, who also happens to sport Intimidate. This would open up serious mind games with Protect lolDetect.
-Attack Shou is a fast and powerful Earth-type who also happens to carry LightningRod to support an Earthquake-immune/flying-type partner such as Hatate, who happens to be a nice check to Sendai.
-Attack Reimu is immune to Intimidate, Earthquake, and Charm, and has set-up options with Tailwind, and a great move-pool. Bring Blade-masters to doubles oh wait those losers take SE damage from EQ which AReimu is immune to hahaha.

There's ur meta. I'm looking forward to it if the changes have a chance at happening.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: EXSariel on March 11, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
I decided against ever implementing a cancel button as the lack of it encourages you to think more carefully before deciding on an action, the presence of a confirm button makes it somewhat redundant, and there is no cancelling when you're in a link battle.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on March 12, 2014, 11:53:05 PM
In Doubles Link battles, you're allowed to change your mind with the first puppet if you haven't already made your move with the second puppet. The Cancel button we had before allowed us to do exactly that, without allowing us to cancel after both moves have been made. I understand the "no changing your mind because you can't do that in-game" thought, and the button being entirely useless in Singles, but what we have now (or in this case, don't have now), doesn't let us turn back when we have made a move with our first puppet, when we normally would be allowed to in a cartridge scenario.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: Bea on May 25, 2014, 02:43:00 PM
I haven't ever played Touhoumon doubles, but I think I'd definitely be interested in it. Though if it's all about Earthquake, that honestly doesn't sound very fun, since all you need is an Earth-immune partner...

Time to run Detect leads
Speaking of Detect, wouldn't it protect you of moves such as Explosion/EQ even if you're not immune to them?
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: DoctorShanks on July 22, 2014, 01:10:20 PM
I haven't ever played Touhoumon doubles, but I think I'd definitely be interested in it. Though if it's all about Earthquake, that honestly doesn't sound very fun, since all you need is an Earth-immune partner...

Time to run Detect leads
Speaking of Detect, wouldn't it protect you of moves such as Explosion/EQ even if you're not immune to them?

Way late response, but yes, this is the entire reason why Protect (in this case, Detect) is pretty much a staple on most Doubles sets. If you can Detect in the face of a predicted Explosion, your opponent loses their Exploder and you come out unscathed (though you're vulnerable to revenge killing on the next turn assuming double-protect). Ghost types certainly enjoy being immune to this move due to its effective 500 Base Power, and let's not forget that Dark-types and Dream-types resist it. To top it all off, there are very few viable users of this move so it would be relatively easy to see coming; Shingyoku-o, Mimi-chan, TAlice, Tensoku, and Goliath would be the main things to look out for IMO. Earthquake is a different story. It's not as common as I imagine it would be, since don't forget that it hits your partner as well, requiring the partner to use Detect or be a Flying-type.
Title: Re: Doubles ladder?
Post by: shai_LP on July 25, 2014, 01:32:37 AM
Don't forget Reflect and Lightscreen need to soak only 1/3rd damage instead of half

also I'd wager you could get around the lack of cancel thing sorta

if you could have shoddy bring up both move selections at the same time? it'd still be sorta annoying though.